Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179373#Comment_118179373

Carty as you say could pick up a decent contract abroad.

Carberry is least likely to want a move.

R Byrne's agent is seemingly saying he is stalling based on interest from France. It could come down to money. With ireland based on last 2 int windows he must be down to 5th or 6th choice.

Burns could be an attractive prospect for a number of rich Premiership clubs. If he was over there he wouldn't be called up during international window for ireland and that is a big bonus for them. Especially as he has dropped down the irish pecking order to at least 5th for now.

Healy is an interesting one. I'm sure Scotland will be circling again.

If one of Burns, R Byrne or Carty chose to move abroad the younger munster outhalves like healy flannery or Crowley may be sounded out to move provinces similar to carberry.

P.Walnuts

Sorry for the completely off current topic Q, byt wass Baird in the extended squad?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180031#Comment_118180031

The English teams seem more interested in SA or NZ players. I don't think burns is flashy enough for them to be honest. A lot of moving at the moment in England and Leicester will be looking for a 10 but I doubt they will look over here

In reality with Healy the IRFU will need to come to a decision, Munster have ended up with too many 10's and all of them won't be happy to sit around. How do they resolve? with the discussions around Crowley Healy would seem to be odd man out, seemingly Scotland are after players in Ulster as well with Scottish relatives so it's not just Healy.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180133#Comment_118180133

Healy definitely isn't the odd one out; he's comfortably the 2nd choice 10 for Munster currently, with substantially more minutes than Crowley or Flannery over the last year.

To me, it seems Flannery is the least favoured; he's the only one who doesn't have a start this season and was named on the bench vs Connacht but wasn't introduced in what was a poor Munster display. He might be an option at 15 tho.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180025#Comment_118180025

well he wont get 200k in the MLR, he might get 45k and make the same with a "coaching" position.

carty might be put into a position here the IRFU make it more desirable for him to move, in order to free up that 10 poistion in Connacht.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180166#Comment_118180166

Sorry I don't mean now, I mean in the future. Crowley seems to have a huge reputation from everyone that talks about him, so moving forward you would have to expect he would jump Healy and push Carbery for starting 10. If everything goes to plan of course.

Then do they let Healy go or Carbery?

As you mention, I thought Flannery could slot into the 15 role, I think he played 15 before but my memory is terrible.

Of course this is all pie in the sky but keeps me from been bored :-)

I think Healy is an excellent player, the IRFU and Munster just need to make sure none are lost.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180133#Comment_118180133

Munster have ended up with too many 10's and all of them won't be happy to sit around. 

Munster have one first choice (Carbery), one novice second choice (Healy) and two utterly untested young lads. As of now, they're very light at out-half and will be until Healy shows he's capable of European games and one or both of the other shows he's able at URC level. But chances are at least one of these guys will fall by the wayside...

Lsdrugbyfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180127#Comment_118180127

Yes

TRC10

Really hope Faz goes like-for-like and starts Casey at 9 this weekend.

Starting Murray would be a massive backwards step. He isn't able to play a high tempo game and at 32 he isn't going to learn.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180426#Comment_118180426

I'd largely agree with this, tbh. Crowley and Flannery have 1 start at 10 and 1 start at 15 between them, it's still very early. I'm not sure of the contract situations, but I think it could be the end of next season before we see any movement at all. Ultimately, this is Healy, Crowley and Flannery's first year out of the Academy.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180467#Comment_118180467

Id disagree.. let's see if Murray can play the new game plan.. also while carberry nailed his kicks last week his defense is still questionable.. and he missed a number of tackles. One big one between himself and JGP at about 72 minutes which was a try to put NZ up by 1 point only for it to he called back by a marginal forward pass..

better to have Murray inside him than casey.

Delighted to see Ryan captain too..

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180133#Comment_118180133

A year out from a world cup. Not sure how many decent nz or SA lads will be on the move. As you say Leicester are on the look out after Ford announced he is off to Sale. Lot of money in the Premiership and Leicester are currently going well and 9 points clear. Someone like Burns might suit them perfectly..

Larbre34

I think there's something of a reality check needed. People are making selection calls as if its the USA or Georgia this Sunday.

Its still Argentina and one does not simply play the kids. Murray starts, all day. And total number of changes from the bench to the starters and from the squad to the bench should be 7 or 8 Max. For me all of Porter, Kelleher, Doris, Conan, Murray, Carbery, Ringrose, Lowe, Conway and Keenan all start, plus Ryan as Captain.

Starr Bealham and have Healy on the bench, plus Kilcoyne and Sheehan. Start Beirne and have Baird on the bench. Start O'Mahony and have Coombes on the bench. Casey and Harry on the bench, plus Balacoune or Zebo, preferably the former but he's not the most versatile cover.

In hindsight I think JGP would have been the person to start this weekend with Carbery coming into the starting outhalf spot. I'd say 7 - 8 changes is likely, Ryan will obviously be starting and the two halves are already ruled out.

Not sure on Murray but reckon he starts. I'd start Luke McGrath personally, has been flying this season but doubt he's in the running.

Would like to see Coombes get a run out, Balacoune and Sheehan.

Luckycharm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163274#Comment_118163274

Don't think Murray would have been quick enough to save the Reece try either.

Luckycharm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180467#Comment_118180467

Is Casey like for like, he certainly doesn't play like that for Munster, he kicks the ball away as much as Murray. The player who is the most like for like would be Mcgrath as Ireland playing similar to Leinster. Don't think he will be doing anymore than holding tackle bags.

I would like to see Zebo start at fullback, we really don't know who the backup to Keenan is as the others have large flaws.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181690#Comment_118181690

Maybe Murray would have kicked a better contestable box kick prior to that kick through and we he wouldn't have been isolated on the wing in no man's land.

Luckycharm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182014#Comment_118182014

Chip ahead could have been done at anytime and nothing to say Murrys kick would have been better

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181986#Comment_118181986

That's because that's Munster's game plan. You could put Dupont in the Munster team and he'd kick the ball away too much.

Casey's pass is exceptional and he's very capable of playing a high tempo game. Murray just isn't.

I really do feel for Casey. He's a cracking player but he's a victim of the side he plays in and it leads to perceptions like this.

McGrath's passing is not good enough and it's cost Leinster on many occasions.

Must love hardship

Id be pretty confident that Murray's box kick would have been better based on the fact he has been consistantly better at box kicking...

the ball was about 3- 5 metres short for it to be contestable..Conway was stopped under the ball and turned and unable to contest properly..jordie Barrett was able to run onto it.

While JGP brought good speed to the breakdown and is now argueabally now out number 1 scrumhalf... he has been persistently poorer than alternatives at box kicking and contesting high balls which were aimed at him by nz. He also missed as many tackles as he made and butchered a try opportunity from Conans pass In the first half.

Ireland have dominated Japan and Nz up front and he had a great ball to work with And varied the attack well.. but I think it Will be interesting to see how he gets on away to France and England in 6 nations If we don't have the same dominance. I still think we have better options. And this week I'd like to see Murray try and play with more pace if that's our new game plan..

V France and Scotland in the spring Jgp kicked 15 times from hand and passed around 80 times. This autumn he has kicked less than 6 times per game and passed more. I hate the box kicking as much as the next guy it wasn't just Murray taking a solo run when kicking the ball away it's obviously a munster and has been an irish tactic to kick up to now..

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182761#Comment_118182761

I’m sure you’re happy to credit JGP with a try saving defensive effort on Jordan that, while chalked down as a missed tackle, was enough to force Jordan to come back inside directly into another tackle?

As for the supposed try butchering, the offload was a clumsy one from Conan as he wasn’t able to free his hands properly. It wasn’t a simple take. It certainly wasn’t a butchering.

His box kicking isn’t superb, but he put in a few good ones vs NZ. And I’m sure you’ll agree that his 50:22 was very impressive?

Must love hardship

I read that mureay kinsella article on his "tackle" too.. It was a missed tackle for me..

and for me it was a good kick into space that bounced 15 yards in field and 10 yards from the 22 and got a very lucky bounce into the corner.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183061#Comment_118183061

And there we have it. Happy to have a cut off him for anything and everything no matter how fair that may be (butchering a try) but refusing to give credit where it’s due as well. I knew you had an agenda/bias. But it’s good to see it confirmed so clearly.

Must love hardship

For the missed tackle he read the situation well and got back to defend from over on the wing but got badly stepped and missed the tackle by about 2 feet.. it was a missed tackle under our posts.

It was a great tackle by bedhlam.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182704#Comment_118182704

I’d genuinely like to see stats on this, tbh. I’d wager our kicking from 9 is way down; my feeling is that a lot more of our kicks are coming from wing and FB, as a function of the 50:22 rule. But in general, I’d say the trope that box-kicking is Munster’s game plan isn’t accurate, imo.

flatface

its not just the box kicking with Murray but the recycle speed. I’m sure it was tactical asked if him, but on every ruck he does a pause nearly the length of a Sexton penalty.

Pause, look around, wait until defense is set, then pass. if he is selected and speeds up his delivery based on our Style 2.0 I’ll be very happy.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183614#Comment_118183614

Murray was never "quick" at the ruck, even looking back at the WC in 2011 it was an issue he had that once he got to the ruck he seemed to like to have a little look around. When you compare him to Stringer etc it is slow.

That been said he is an incredible player and one of the best 9s Ireland ever had, if not the best. Time has moved on and at think at Murrays age now he is not going to be able to suddenly change an entire lifetime to suddenly start firing out quick ball. His experience etc should be in the squad but at this stage maybe he is the best option on bench to close out a game

Podge_irl

Don't think RWC '11 is a good reference for Murray. He should never have been starting in that competition. He massively improved from 2013 onwards.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184600#Comment_118184600

I just made reference to that from a view of his early career. Even in 2013 he was never "quick" at the ruck. Not when you compare him to some of the other 9s knocking around in the World. Even when he was the best 9 in the World his competition was always because they had quicker ball. Murray of course had loads of other attributes to his game. Please note I am not trying to criticise Murray, he is a class player. Just his game was never built around quick ball

Interested Observer

Is the team named today or tomorrow?