Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596754#Comment_118596754

No, he just isn't as good as Sexton.

We've been utterly spoilt here in Ireland over the last 20 years by always having a world class out half. Humphries, then ROG, now Sexton. So if a 10 isn't world class, we think they're not good enough. Which isn't the case.

Carty has been the best performing out half out of all the provinces this season. He did a solid job when he got his chance. He's no worse than any of Scotland's options behind Russell or Wales' options behind Biggar.

When was the last time Carbery actually created a try. With a kick or pass, or by scoring one himself?

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596940#Comment_118596940

Just on your bit about the last 20 years, I think I'm right in saying we've pretty much had 4 out halves in the last 30 years. Elwood, Humphreys, ROG and Sexton. Yes others have a few caps here and there. But it's basically been those four.

There was a good programme on BBC1 NI last week charting the history of Irish 10s from Jack Kyle to Jonny Sexton.

I just about remember Ralph Keyes and to an extent Brian Smith, but it actually opened my eyes watching the old VT about how good some of the previous 10s were. Tony Ward looked like he was some footballer alright, and some of the tries the '85 side scored with Paul Dean at out half were top drawer.

We always seem to have had a good out half and I have feeling the succession planning to Sexton will kind of just fall into place but because of the spotlight on the Ireland team these days it may be the hardest succession at 10 yet.

Dubinusa

Ollie Campbell was brilliant. As was Ward. We had some awesome 10's.

So after Sexton, there is a drop off! But, there's some decent young players coming through.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596940#Comment_118596940

I agree we have had a fantastic period of world class number 10s. But its not sexton that's keeping Carty out of the team. Carberry is. Hes 29 and has 10 caps. Even with Sexton around for so long if he was a viable replacement he would have being picked more.

I've no I'll feeling against the lad, we're from the same town, but he's not a world class 10.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596940#Comment_118596940

Genuine question. Why do you think Carty is behind Carbery?

jimdemp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596818#Comment_118596818

Of course its not but its what was being said down through the years its no secret

rodge123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597317#Comment_118597317

Jimdemp dresses up as Kim Jong-un in a ballerina outfit every third Saturday of the month and dances down Grafton street singing the Star-Spangled Banner.

Its what was being said down through the years and it’s no secret!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594717#Comment_118594717

Are they really? England were incredibly poor and completely brain dead, yet dominated the game on everything except the scoreboard.

Scotland are Scotland, no different than any other year. Capable of winning a couple of games at home but will not beat us in Dublin. They might beat Wales though as they are pretty awful at the moment.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597317#Comment_118597317

So, of course it’s not a quote. But it is what was said.

Ok then…

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597525#Comment_118597525

What I would say about that Scottish team is that I wouldn’t fancy having to rack up a big score on the last day to win the championship.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597598#Comment_118597598

No I don’t think we will hammer them but I’d say we will win by two scores. They will be able to put up more of a fight than Wales did, that’s for sure. I just don’t see anything that would suggest they can win here.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597032#Comment_118597032

but he's not a world class 10.

I never said he was world class

Denny61

The French match will be the first real test .when you look back on the last few games we have played ..playing our new style of rugby. New Zealand were practically out on their feet after a long campaign japan while they played nice rugby .are no good defensively and no power up front. Argentina were once a good team but a lot of their good players not there anymore. And Wales obviously missed 7 good first team players . So in effect we were playing a very inexperienced disjointed team..I jst fear for us in France. As this bubble might burst and we end up leaking tries ..we are good to look at while we in possession but without out it AND the ball in the hands of France...we will loose shape trying to defend and trying to win ball .dirty plus in set pieces we will be severely tested. I hope not but I can see us brought down to earth with a bang ..my prediction score. Is ...France 35 Ireland 10

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598609#Comment_118598609

And all the same is true in reverse. France beat NZ in the last game of a very long season. Struggled to beat Argentina. Struggled to impose themselves against Italy in the first half on Sunday. Haven’t really had their defence tested by a team that will leave them guessing like Ireland will.

Going back to 2012 France have only beaten us 3 times. Once by one point, once by two points and the biggest winning margin being 8 points two years ago. Yet you think they’ll beat us by 25 points this time. When we are both offensively and defensively in a much better place. Are you actually joking?

Denny61

History does not come in to it ..unless we are talking about same players in a same team playing each other over a short period of time .then you see a pattern .France have very good athletes. Individualy and while not as cohesivene in the past. They are more organised now .Italy while Not winning are still a formidable team...we're you watching a different match on Sunday .they had good ball carriers..broke the gain line a lot of the time..and knew what they were about..I'm.jst saying..don't get carried away .we will.know more by Saturday evening...so you are saying ireland should win or win comprehensively

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598853#Comment_118598853

well france are favourites to win the game, so a france victory will not be unexpected.

a 25 point french victory however would certainly be unexpected.

i see it as a one score game either way

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598609#Comment_118598609

I don’t get why some people feel the need to run down this teams achievements while bigging up the opposition. We did to Japan something that no other team had done in around a decade. Sure they aren’t a great team, but that defeat for them was beyond anything they had suffered in a long time. The same is true of Argentina. They aren’t great, but it’s been years since they were that badly beaten.

Against New Zealand, we dominated the game in ways that France never did. We didn’t make it count on the scoreboard, but NZ needed to put in an absolutely monster shift at the end of the first half to keep us out. That took it out of them for the second half and they didn’t recover for the French game where France faced a badly fading NZ side from kick-off. Yet NZ had a big purple patch where they came right back into the game. They never had a purple patch like that against us.

France are favourites for this game, but the last time they beat us by something like 25 points was 2010 where they beat us by 23 (and we fairly imploded that day IIRC). Since then they’ve won 6, we’ve won 6 and we’ve drawn 2 games. Their greatest winning margin in that time was 8 points. Our greatest winning margin was 15 points.

France beat Italy by 27 points. Do you really think that we’ll be beaten by the same kind of score that the Italians were beaten by? Bear in mind that they beat Italy by 40 last year and other than that their biggest winning margin was 2 points (vs ourselves and Wales).

TRC10

I keep hearing people talking about the French's "physicality" and whether we'll be able to live with it. But I don't think this Irish team is one that will get bullied.

I mean, if we look at the two packs. Baille is no more physical than Porter. Same with Marchand and Kelleher. Antonio is a big boy but Furlong is a miles better player. Woki is a lovely player, but he's a back row who never played lock before November and he's smaller than Tadhg Beirne (who was too small to play lock, remember). Willemse is the one player in the pack I'd worry about, he's an absolute monster, but bringing in Henderson could nullify him a bit, and James Ryan is coming into his own and really asserted himself v Wales. Alldritt is no bigger or more physical than Conan. Likewise, Jelonch is no bigger than Doris. Cretin is tall (6'5) but he's not a destructive or abrasive player.

So in short, I don't fear this Irish pack getting bullied. I'd be more worried about their backs and whether Dupont and Ntamack are on song.

pickarooney

A pack is always about much more than the individual sizes of the players. SA rarely have a significant combined weight advantage over their opponents but are rightly heralded as a physical 'monster' pack due to their fantastic technique and the cohesiveness of their pack.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598953#Comment_118598953

Also they always seem to have an eben etzibeth or babies botha in there

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598609#Comment_118598609

Flip...a 25 point defeat is the stuff of the 1990s.

We may not win on Saturday but unless we have the worst day at the office imagineable and everything that could go wrong does go wrong we won't lose by 25 points.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598953#Comment_118598953

I mean, when SA won the WC, both locks were 6'9 and 120kg+. Du Toit at blindside was 6'7 and 120kg. Kolisi and Vermuelen are both big strong boys too.

That helps.

pickarooney

England had 20kg on them

Kolisi's the second lightest forward on the pitch behind Mbonambi. Vermeulen against Vunipola... that's almost the pack difference on its own! Also, Cole played most of the match and has at least 5kg on Sinckler

Interested Observer

I'm really struggling to believe either Kolisi or Mbonambi are under 100kg.

Shehal

One thing you'd say about France is this season (autumn & 6n) if you take out the NZL game they have actually been quite poor, it kind of goes under the radar because they weren't playing great opposition so they weren't really good enough to take advantage. Then again Ireland is the biggest game they have played this season (NZL arguably but that was one off test match) so maybe we'll get the NZL performance out of them.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598953#Comment_118598953

It also comes down to athleticism and power rather than just pure size, the Wales u20 pack looked like a monster pack versus Ireland yet at full-time who's pack would you take? No contest the Irish one.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598928#Comment_118598928

I totally agree tbh, TRC. But it's hard to keep up with your opinions of our front-row at times. Mid-October, you were asking in the Leinster thread:

Do we have the best front row in Europe?

Yet mid-December, after the Bath game:

Porter/Kelleher/Furlong, world's best front row my ass. Getting embarrassed by one of the worst teams in the comp.

I'm sure you'd agree at this point that you over-reacted after the Bath game? I guess the reason I'm pointing this out is that, while I do think you are a good poster, you do have a tendency to over-react. And if that excellent French front-row get the better of us on Saturday, I hope you don't over-react this time as well.

All_in_Flynn

Only area I'm worried about on Saturday is scrum time. I think Porter got away with a couple against Wales. I'm no scrum expert though so willing to be told otherwise. My feeling though is that he hasn't fully adapted since moving back over from TH.

If we gain parity at scrum I think we will win.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599495#Comment_118599495

Agreed. Only Springbok forward to maybe weigh in sub 100kg would be Kwagga Smith IMO

jimdemp

Bod claiming today Aki didnt pass enough against France and should be dropped for Henshaw who he claims has a higher skillset lol i thought Aki made 15 passes or some high number close to it. He really is the most bias pundit out there. Matt Williams saying Aki only started to develop his passing skills 2 years ago was another blaffing statement.