Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Michael Zozimus Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624054#Comment_118624054

Hes the best scrum half in Ireland and many uncoloured by your beliefs agree with me. Mcgrath can’t pass or kick. Doak is slower and Casey is too confrontational.

Gibson Park slinks the play upfield in an fluid way no other scrum half in Ireland can. His vision and weighing up options is razor sharp and his service lightning fast. It’s like he’s dragging the team upfield solely through his control of play.

No other scrum half has that in Ireland. His box kicking is adequate but he compensates for that by bringing a killer instinct to the attack.

Sure you can being isolated examples of his skills failing and I welcome stats vs other players in your comparison. As far as I can see his skills are as good if not better than his competition. And he brings killer instinct to the base.

timmymagoo

I think yesterday was a game which Ireland will learn from, the result for me is secondary the performance was more important and I think we played very well and could have won it

for me it is important Ireland go to the World Cup and make a semi final. That is truly what Irish rugby needs.

There is 15 games I think between now and end of 6 nations 2023.

I hope Farrell picks what he believes his 31 man squad is and a list of back ups, and gets real game time into all of these players. Being truthful omahoney, sexton, Murray and earls will not be at that World Cup and so have no business playing for Ireland the next 2 years

farrell has to decide

for example its carbery and carty and harry byrne at 10 and get game time into each.

For example it’s park, doak and Casey at 9 and get game time into all 3

yesterday against France sexton was to start and Murray and Pom came off the bench, this makes zero sense

carberry should be starting and an maybe Casey and Combes coming on.

Clegg

Sexton starts in the World Cup if he's fit to do so. There's simply no 10 even half as good available to us.

I can see Murray and POM travelling to France as experienced back ups. POM still has the ability to make positive contributions from the bench. Murray maybe not so much.

Earls is a tougher choice. He still has a bit to contribute I think, but he'll be 35 at the WC and his position requires a lot of pace and athleticism. Not sure he'll still have that in 18 months. We've a lot of good back three players around too.

timmymagoo

The World Cup should be all about a semi final

murray and Pom yesterday offered very little and if sexton started he also would have struggled with Frances power game.

sexton earls Pom and Murray all are too old to make a contribution at the World Cup

that’s life, time waits for no man.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624640#Comment_118624640

How are you so certain that none of them can make a contribution at a World Cup? I've seen a lot of these sort of posts recently and it's not backed up by any sort of logic.

Is it something to do with injury profile? If that's the case then we may as well plan for Carbery to miss the thing as he's more injury prone that Sexton.

As things stand, Sexton is our best 10 by a distance. It could be that by August 2023 he may have slowed down and actually be on the decline. But nothing from his game this season suggests that to be true. He's playing as well as ever. We're not dropping our best player on the off chance that something might happen.

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624677#Comment_118624677

Pom Murray and earls I believe there is better player’s available now

Is sexton our best 10?

i believe carberry was very good yesterday and we are told France are the best.

sexton will be 38 at the World Cup and that age is just too old, he is a minor injury away from retirement and Ireland by sticking with sexton will rock up to a World Cup with inexperienced out half’s

sexton was one of the best Irish players ever, I am not against the man.

Former Former Former

Sexton will be very old come the RWC and his ability is only going in one direction at this point.

However, he's so much better than anyone else that it's very possible he'll still be our best OH in September 2023.

So it would be mad to jettison him in the blind hope that someone will finally step up.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624737#Comment_118624737

There are better players than POM/Murray/Earls which is why they're no longer starting for Ireland. But they're still talented enough to offer something positive from the bench if called upon. It's not that long ago that POM helped stem the tide against New Zealand for instance.

Yes, Sexton is our best 10 by a distance. Carbery was fine yesterday. Kicked poorly at times and sat too deep, but his pack was under pressure so he gets a pass. But he was nothing spectacular either. It certainly wasn't a performance that should have anyone believing he's ready to take over from Sexton immediately.

Your point about Sexton being a minor injury away from retirement makes no sense. He's currently suffering one right now and is scheduled to be back in 7 days. You keep saying 38 is too old. But why is it too old if he's playing well and better than any other 10? Injuries can happen to any player at any time. That doesn't mean you should drop your best player and harm your own chances in games you can win.

bilston

Gibson Park didn't have a great game overall, but let's not forget the pack were under the pump. The French counter ruck was destructive and that makes it a nightmare for a scrum half.

Does our attacking shape leave us short a man for resourcing the breakdown or was it just the extra physicality of France?

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624991#Comment_118624991

Watched back some of the extended highlights this morning and on another day the French could have been whistled off the park. They left bodies on the wrong side which made the clear out harder and for the most part just flopped on the ball with impunity. It's hard enough to clear out a player but when they are lying on the ground it's impossible.

France made hay yesterday but that's not a performance that overly worries me. They needed a very lenient ref and some decisions to do what they did. That's not a given and refs will be told to watch out for them sooner rather than later.

The stuff at line-out time was almost laughable. They knew we had a good maul yesterday so just launched players across the line time after time. The one on their 5m line was especially egregious and I just had to laugh at it.

I know both teams had meetings with Garner before the game but there's no way he said to them that he would allow a free for all. That just didn't happen.

My take on the game yesterday is that they needed to be at their best and required some luck. We can improve quite a bit and our game doesn't require the same level of luck.

Speaking of which, I still can't believe their last try was allowed to stand. Gardner blocks POM from making a try saving tackle and he just ignores it.

OldRio

How did the ball come out of that ruck? Was it kicked out?

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624991#Comment_118624991

I think you have a point about our style of play potentially leaving us short of a clearer at the ruck. Our style is still structured in such a way that supporting clearers will never be too far away. But we play quicker and wider than before so they won't always get there immediately. A team like France which floods the ruck will reap some dividends. Luckily, I don't think there are many sides in test rugby who can do to us what France did. Maybe only South Africa has the power to dismantle us in the same way.

Leinster have faced the same issue this season. They're playing wider and with a greater emphasis on offloading in contact to keep continuity. Put that comes with the risk of getting detached from support play. We've conceded Ankit of penalties at the breakdown for that reason.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625075#Comment_118625075

It sure was. Looked like one of the French forwards coming in from the side took a swing at it with his foot.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625075#Comment_118625075

Before the 2nd French try?

I think the French counterrucked, Ryan then was maybe moving backwards and accidentally kicked the ball out of the ruck.

OldRio

Thanks Bilston I've not had a chance to watch back.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625121#Comment_118625121

Pretty sure it was a French boot. You can see it from 4:37 in thos video.

https://youtu.be/oM1r8URXzRs

flatface

The French came after our rucks and set pieces ferociously to disrupt and unsettle us. I thought the rucks in particular looked a WWF free for all but they played the ref well and kept winning all the collisions .

It made it so hard for Ireland to play as they had doubts on their ability to retain ball in rucks, line outs and scrums. We were hesitant, disrupted and aimless kicks followed. I am kinda impressed that they stayed in it at all given the French dominance.

Several players did not shine but their task was made very hard. I can understand the knee jerk reaction to the loss. But if we were playing the same team in France again in a few weeks I would play the exact same team and give them a go to see if we can learn and turn it around. Tough game.

flatface

Even when we had our purple patch we struggled at every ruck to get clean ball. Ruined our continuity.

Dubinusa

A 1/4 final or a semi is not an ideal goal. I think we can win the fuckin world cup. Our trajectory and style has evolved to the point that even when we struggle against a big lump of a pack, we find a way to hang in. This would have been a washout in 2019, imo.

Not blaming the ref but, we can't rely on a ref to make a match square. France made their own luck and won. There's so much to work on. A win here, would have papered over the cracks. We're not far off.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625199#Comment_118625199

It's certainly messier than I remembered watching that back. You can't see the ball.comemof Ryan's boot there really, but I think that was what gave it back to the French.

phily2002

French director not great at showing replays when it shows French players in the wrong. Always been that way

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625758#Comment_118625758

It does my head in

jimdemp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624991#Comment_118624991

So he is not effective if the pack is losing? unlike someone like Marmion? Farrell has lost the French for 3 years in a row and the media are buzzing because we got some kind of moral victory. Only for some Mack Hanson magic ireland would have been scoreless at half time.

salmocab

Only for that score we got we wouldn’t have scored. That’s basically where we’re at now.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626100#Comment_118626100

Only we turned up yesterday we would have had to forfeit the game. Small margins.

jimdemp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626202#Comment_118626202

If we had went to the corner we would have won

ersatz

Yesterday was not a bad result if we have the WC in mind as a destination (maybe not even for the championship if France slip up). Much rather see that the way to counter the Irish game is to monster the breakdown forcing us to narrow and commit more bodies which undermines our running game, simple and obvious as it is I’d rather see it hurt us this 6N rather than next year. Any of the top 5 teams would cause us problems if they come at us W a pack playing the style of France yesterday. Similarly our scrummaging yesterday would be welcomed by the likes of SA and England, maybe the ABs too.

it will be interesting to see how Farrell adjusts. It’s worth remembering that we came into yesterday’s game W everyone bar Sexton there or thereabouts fitness wise, and we were playing well.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626221#Comment_118626221

That's not true though is it Jim?

For what it's worth I 100% agree they should have backed the lineout and maul, but nothing is ever set in stone.

jimdemp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626233#Comment_118626233

The leinster pack have history of getting mauled on the big euro days surly Farrell knew this. Henderson should always start and coombes or beirne brought into the backrow. Killer should be brought into the panel if healy is only good for 7 minutes. Try out thornbery in the future hes 6'10. Murry should have started if we were going to kick so much. Henshaw should have started aswel. Ringrose,park,conan could come on as big teams tire and things loosen up.

Dubinusa

Thornbury is 17st. Lol, he's going to make a difference. Plus he's injured frequently. Why not start the Connacht backrow? Why not?