Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Bogwoppit

If my aunty had balls she’d be my uncle.

Henderson looked well off the pace when he came on, I highly doubt he’d have lasted long if he’d started.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626413#Comment_118626413

Henderson had a number of really positive involvements. I'd be surprised if he doesn't start against Italy.

connachta

Hansen, though not having been perfect, is not criticised on the page, after only 2 unexpected caps.

Amazing sign

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626891#Comment_118626891

He missed an important tackle and was caught asleep for the first try when he turned his back and allowed a quick line out. For that same try he flapped at Atonio also in the build up( who I wouldn't like to try and tackle myself :) )

Hard to be over critical on him apart from that. Got a great try.

Conway on the other wing was poor and I'd love to see balacoune get a run v Italy.

RichieRich_89

The players I'd have in mind if you wanted to beef up the pack are Josh Murphy at 6, Gavin Coombes at 8 and Quinn Roux (obviously out of the picture now) in the second row. Baird is a big guy for a blindside, but cleaning out rucks isn't his game.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627160#Comment_118627160

Is that 2nd row/backrow for a wolfhounds game?

Neil3030

Was traveling yesterday so could only look back at the game this evening.

France came heavy at the breakdown, and came heavy in defense. Their attacking game was simple, intense, and effective. They deserved to win.

However, run that game back 100 times and I reckon a six-point-plus Irish loss would be fairly rare.

Two terrible exits saw us gift them a try and a penalty goal. Add to that two uncharacteristic mistakes by otherwise dependable backs - the kick-gone-dead by Keenan and the Conway penalty early in the second half. That's 14 of their 30 points. Enough to scratch the fortuitous Hansen try and still leave us victorious by more than a score.

And while the French attack was brutally hard-hitting, I thought we actually coped with it fairly well. We gifted a try to Baille and their other try was a moment of brilliance by Ntamack and Dupont. Outside of that, I recall only two incidents when they put us under serious pressure in our 22 - once in the first half, where we conceded a penalty for being offside, and then in the second half, culminating in the brilliant Sheehan intervention. From the hour-mark onwards, they were definitely playing for the final whistle, rarely going over 3 or 4 phases before kicking possession back to us.

Related to that, I wonder if France showed us too much respect? Six shots at goal obviously secured the win, but I wonder how our defense would have coped with some earlier kicks into the corner. I think they possibly left a TBP on the table there, not least if they'd got one of our men into the bin.

Their power game had a broader impact on us too. With our forwards tired out by the ferocious test at the breakdown, we used less decoy runners, and a more predictable attack. It'll be interesting to see if we a more effective solution for this in Twickenham.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624295#Comment_118624295

I think JGP is our best option at 9, but this level of praise is making him sound like the 2nd coming of Gregan.

ShineyShiney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627499#Comment_118627499

Fully agree on all points.

Break for a week now to recover and reassess, plenty left to play for and some real gains for us in big game experience for Sheehan and Carbery.

I wouldn't be rushing to beef us up, but I would be rushing to improve our exits and a little work on Porters scrum technique. Think it might be worth us dropping a few just after engage before a ref has decided which side has the upper hand, 50/50 chance of getting the arm raised our side.

I think pom makes that tackle without the ref running a crossing line.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627782#Comment_118627782

That is a much more elegant way of putting it, thank you.

Ah look, JGP had some bad errors but playing the game he does and the style of play that were trying to implement, errors are inevitable.

With the slow and dirty ball we were getting in the first half, Murray may well have been a better choice, but he would never have scored that try that JGP did.

Bazzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627976#Comment_118627976

Murray came on after one too many dodgy box kicks by Gibson-Park and if he affected the game it was only negatively - his box kicks weren't even good. I'd drop him for Casey to be honest.

arsebiscuits1

Biggest positive for me was Dan Sheehans coming of age.

In what was only his 4th cap (and 25th senior game ever) to have a performance like that in the cauldron that is Stade de France against a French team like that and to thrive is hugely encouraging.

Saturday was the joint longest stint he's put on a rugby pitch since Dragons in October and Munster and Zebre last season. Big ask for him to come on that early.

His carrying was good, his setpiece was mixed but overall positive. His defence was rock solid. The kid is a physical unit.

It's a pity France were on pen advantage for the tackle where he held your man up because that was one of the most technically brilliant bits of rugby you're ever likely to see.

He's very good. And will only get better. Exciting times

starkid

Maybe Ireland need to think outside the box more themselves.

From a World Rugby article -

Galthie's first france squad you had Anthony Bouthier, the former builder who played his first top-flight game at 27 and was starting for France within six months. His Montpellier team-mate Mohamed Haouas’s Test debut was not his first ‘Crunch’, having played for the French Navy against their English counterparts four years prior to packing down against Joe Marler and co.

Since then, Gabin Villiere has gone from being a second-team scrum-half in the third tier to a sevens standout and then a Test winger in just 18 months. And, last July, Melvyn Jaminet kicked France to a first win on Australian soil in 31 years before he’d got his first taste of the Top 14.And in just five years, the 6ft 8in Flament, who had taken up rugby in Belgium, went from pulling the strings at ten in BUCS Four to starting in the second row for les Bleus against Argentina at the Stade de France. 

-

we talk about power, athleticism etc. we have options that aren't in this squad.

i think a loss to England means we need to start looking at these guys. Coombes, Lowry, Baloucoune even Healy. further down i'd be of the opinion thomas ahern is our Flament.

we need to kill the hype...best front row in the world, best this or that. lets just stop. it was a good comeback but much of the game wasn't good enough.

Are we saying a 3rd third place in a row is good enough?

the best thing to happen us is getting blown apart by France, and maybe even England. If Lowry and Rb don't get a go against Italy we might as well just give up having hopes for the future.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628187#Comment_118628187

It really depresses me that I support the same team as people like you.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628203#Comment_118628203

oh no i suggested we need to look at some further options. what a crime

it depresses me that people like you are so close minded and can't face reality. we talk of lack of power etc etc. we have a 6,6 number 8 in Munster, we have a physical speedster in ulster, a 6,9 athletic lock who can't get games in Munster.

it was a terrific second half in most part from Ireland.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628187#Comment_118628187

why are you passing off rugbyworld articles as you own words??

https://www.rugbyworld.com/featured/the-incredible-rise-of-thibaud-flament-137241

dosent surprise me at all coming from you....

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628220#Comment_118628220

i'm not just people won't read the links i'd imagine

so get over yourself...

again the point is although French rugby has more players, they still manage to recognise talent outside of the main parts.

We ignore the talent and then lament that we don't have anybody.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628227#Comment_118628227

you were !!!

you literally copied and pasted from the article.

no wonder no one takes you seriously here

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628235#Comment_118628235

i mean i wasnt trying to pass it off. what am i trying to pass off the eloquent language. just the information. you speak for the whole thread is it? i've reported you for that comment

i'd imagine a link wouldn't get read.

yeah fair i should have quoted it but i didn't get a chance. again anyway ignore the actual content.

Quinlan and others lamenting the power of Flaument (who only took up rugby 5 years ago) on OFTB while a 6,9 lock outsider can't get in the Munster squads. its gas really when you think about it. its a constant theme in Irish rugby. was at an event for Terry Kennedy's uncle and when you meet junior you realise there isn't many of him in Ireland. the great Johnny Maloney even recognised this point. if Terry Kennedy was french he wouldn't be working in finance.

but anyway sure focus on other things. and don't worry i'm feeling no gotcha moment here. i'm just pffing at the usual nonsense

TLDR - if Gabin Villiere was Irish he'd still be playing sevens. examples in the hyperlinks from an article from World Rugby.

sydthebeat

🙄

yeah.....

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628276#Comment_118628276

exactly my sentiments

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628187#Comment_118628187

You've had a few posts now where you seem to be assuming we're going to lose to England. I don't understand why, tbh.

salmocab

Jesus there’s a 6.9 lock not getting his game for his province? We’ll there’s the answer to our problems right there not good enough at a lower level so would definitely be our saviour.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628331#Comment_118628331

no i never said that. we probably won't. England are not the force of old. WE did really well to stay in the game and showed glimpses. the game was lost on the back of Sextons injury. However IF we lose, questions will invariably be asked no? and long term it might be good for us. the french game probably taught us a load of lessons. long term it might be good for us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628332#Comment_118628332

and no again not what im saying. France looked outside the obvious and reaped rewards. we are sooo slow to do so. Gabin Villiere played sevens. Terry Kennedy works in finance and is considered one of the best semi professional sevens players in the World. If he was English or French he probably gets a shot.

i'm not a fan of it and you will never convince me. when a pundit goes on about Frances power or a guy like flaument, i roll my eyes. we may not have the same player population but when we actively self sabotage ourselves, it pisses me off.

Any other country fast tracks a 6,9 second row. he'll be 25 before he's considered to have passed the school of hard knocks here.

Larmour is another one for me. a flyer like that and its just been accepted shrug the shoulders yep he's not good enough or whatever. but then we'll go on till the cows come home how we don't have x factor, pace etc etc. we've clearly favoured fitness, slim athletic builds over size and its always going to be a factor. the latter nearly got us over the line on Sat. but nearly doesn't win a world cup.

Bogwoppit

I have a mate who’s 6’10 and built like a brick sh1thouse, I’ll get him to give Andy a call.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628360#Comment_118628360

erm ok ..

was he a standout under 20s Ireland player currently contracted to a province....i suspect not so ...

but funnily enough Anthony Bouthier a french international sort of fits your description

you should definitely try to get your friend involved in rugby if he isn't though. he'll never play for Ireland but would be a valued member of irish rugby community.

funnily enough Ireland's produced a load of locks over 6,7 as well.

we're talking ourselves into the size thing imo. we've obviously favoured athletic builds over pure size. Japan was an obvious example where bundee was kgs lighter.

Farrell even bristled at the talk last week in a press conference.

hopefully for Italy we see some changes. Lowry, RB, Coombes.

TRC10

Ahern may be 6'9 but a strong breeze would blow him over.

The guy would be snapped in half if he played international rugby. He needs to put on 7-8kgs

If he's the answer, you're asking the wrong questions

hold my beer

Anyone that makes their profile private on here should be ignored. My guess is they do it to make it difficult to put them on ignore lists. But you can manually add them yourself in your own profile.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628483#Comment_118628483

Has Ahern put together a run of games, he seems to be injured regularly enough

the baby bull elephant

Jimmy O'Brien, Hugo Keenan and Will Connors were all on the same Ireland 20s team as Terry. All played 7s at some stage and have progressed in the 15s game. Terry had 4 years in the academy and couldn't get time with Leinster at all. He's a brilliant 7's player but he wasn't completely overlooked in 15s.