Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sydthebeat

^

thats it in a nut shell.

the IRFU owns the provinces, therefore ultimately they are in control of all funds, and where all funds are spent. Each provinces works as its own private business, but they arent independent fifedoms. Should the IRFU wish tomorrow to reduce Ulsters budget by 25% and raise connachts by 50% they can do it at a whim. Therefore, ultimately, the costs for all players playing professional rugby in ireland is paid by the IRFU.

Burkie1203

I think Awec has it spot on. IRFU will provide you with X amount for a player. If the player wants more and you can provide it, work away

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755402#Comment_118755402

Then wouldn't you be in a situation where provinces could outbid another for a player, which we're always told is not permitted? Or that the richest provinces would be causing wage inflation for everyone else?

Jump_In_Jack

I thought the IRFU decreed a number of years ago that a player moving province can not be offered more than the province they are leaving can afford, in practice I don't know how that would work, especially considering the details of how wages are paid posted already this morning which are quite interesting.

Just realised that Ireland's first Rugby World Cup 2023 fixture will be in exactly 18 months from today!! The excitement builds!!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755256#Comment_118755256

Yea but is offset against what the IRFU contribute to the budget. Not an addition to it.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118754415#Comment_118754415

If you were picking a world 15 for 18 months time why would you pick them today? (Answer: you may if you were EOS)

It’s up to someone to take the jersey from Sexton. Hopefully we see that in the next 18 months. If not, and Sexton is still the best option, so be it. At the moment he certainly is.

If he had stated he was retiring at the end of this season there would be an element of feeling abandoned by him this close to a World Cup and chants of 1 more year doing the rounds.

starkid

There is a lot of rugby to get through for Sexton. I think he and Ireland are playing with fire here. i think if you want him to get to France you can´t have him play all the big games. but im glad he is signed. it will be a sad day when he retires, one of Ireland´s greatest players and our best chance of winning on Saturday.

RB disappointed not to be involved against Italy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx2-tTZ_B_4

surely Lowe and Conway start on Saturday

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755184#Comment_118755184

The money for winning the league or European Cup, goes to the IRFU

At an MRSC AGM a few years back it was said that the IRFU keeps the prize money from the H/Cup but that the league prize money goes to the province. Afaik, there is prize money for reaching knock-out games in the Cup and reaching the final in the league and that stays with the provinces too.

Wegians89

Team I’d like to see this weekend:

Healy Sheehan Furlong

ryan Henderson

Beirne Doris VDF

JGP sexton

Bundee Henshaw

Lowe Keenan Conway

herring kilcoyne Bealham Baird Pom Murray Carbery Hansen

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755273#Comment_118755273

This is incorrect.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755441#Comment_118755441

No, since that's a totally separate issue. Obviously no province is allowed to vastly overpay a particular player outside of the wage structure, that is why the contracts are all bucketized. Each bucket has wage ranges and a defined IRFU contribution.

The point here is that the idea that all of the money for all of the players comes from the IRFU is 100% false. The IRFU pay the bulk of it, but every province has to contribute it's own funds that come from their own earnings.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755875#Comment_118755875

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-20410611.html

you mean the IRFU cant suddenly increase playing budgets on a whim?? really??

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/irfu-increase-munsters-annual-grant-by-more-than-1m-to-ease-financial-woes-34770360.html

or divert funds to provinces to cover shortfalls?

it is YOU who is incorrect

you need to think of the clubs as businesses working under license to the IRFU. They can work away as going concerns, but ultimately the power of budget is at the hands of the IRFU.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756117#Comment_118756117

I am saying the idea that the IRFU fund player contracts in their entirety is false. When you said "Therefore, ultimately, the costs for all players playing professional rugby in ireland is paid by the IRFU" you were incorrect.

I've explained it numerous times above, I don't think I need to explain it all again.

You've suggested a few times now that the IRFU cover all the costs, it's all IRFU money. Just one obvious example of how incorrect this: De Allende and Snyman at Munster. It is common knowledge that Munster rely on private sponsorship and business partnerships to pay these salaries. Square that circle for us all. And that's just one high profile example.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756172#Comment_118756172

ultimately, as owners of the provinces, and as underwriters should the provinces become financially in trouble (as they did during covid) then the IRFU are the ultimate payers of the players wages. You fail to accept this clear salient point, which is fine. i mean, this fact has already played out in reality, the provinces couldn't pay their share of the players wages during covid and the IRFU had to step in to cover the costs or they lose THEIR assets.

A percentage of the players wages are paid from the books of the provinces, as going concern businesses, but those business are owned by the IRFU.. so no matter what way its dressed up / accounted for, ultimately the IRFU pay the costs of professional players in ireland.

Tommybojangles

Delighted to see Sexton signing on until the world cup. Such a feeling of what might have been when BOD packed it in a year before France.

I'll believe "The Cliff" theory when I see it. It doesn't happen to older players half as often as people make out. Although it happened ROG so maybe at least if it does we'll get a "who had a better cliff?" Thread

Pussyhands

It's quite a distance away for Sexton to be committing to the world cup imo.

18 months is a long time for him. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he didn't go to the WC through injury.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756298#Comment_118756298

Yes you are obfuscating the issue now.

Yes, the IRFU own all the provinces, so you can claim that every cent that Leinster make is really the IRFU making money. But this is not what everyone else is actually discussing.

The discussion is about differentiating between central funds, i.e. money that is distributed from the IRFU as a central body, and funds spent on players that come directly from a provinces own income.

You have said all players are paid by central funding. This is incorrect. It is demonstrably incorrect, again using the high profile examples of De Allende and Snyman. If you think the money Leinster make from their Aviva fixtures goes towards paying players at any other province you are wrong. If you think the money Ulster make from their shirt sales goes toward paying players at any other province you are wrong. If you think the money Munster make from their sell out European fixtures goes toward paying players at any other province you are wrong.

Again, I feel I laid it out pretty clearly in at least 2 posts above as to how it all works.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756448#Comment_118756448

You have said all players are paid by central funding.

did i ??

quote please.....

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756469#Comment_118756469

"Therefore, ultimately, the costs for all players playing professional rugby in ireland is paid by the IRFU"

sydthebeat

🙄

jimdemp

Sexton got his contract so will probably go off injured after 20 minutes and have a break.

salmocab

That’s the rumour alright, good thing Lowe has decided not to wait until NZ are in town as was also ‘rumoured’.

Dubinusa

If Munster get private backing for players, outside the scope of the IRFU, why can't the other provinces do it?

Couldn't the provinces get private investment? Or is this against the IRFU charter. If the union is the owner, why is outside funding allowed?

This finances set up is kind of confusing.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757651#Comment_118757651

Getting private money to subsidise foreign players is one thing, I'm not sure it would be allowed for Irish players.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757727#Comment_118757727

Ehm Sexton?

ionadnapokot

Sexton - Denis O'Brien

Heaslip - Bank of Ireland

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757651#Comment_118757651

There were rumours that Sexton (returning form France) and Heaslip got private backing but I don't know how true any of it was.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757783#Comment_118757783

I had never heard that about Heaslip but like Sexton it would have been an IRFU central deal so a totally different scenario

awec

There has definitely been private backing for Irish players.

I think Sean O'Brien got some private backing for one of his contracts, it was around the time there was all the talk of both he and Heaslip leaving Leinster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think O'Brien spent most of his career on a Leinster contract rather than an Irish one?

Deusexmachina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118751808#Comment_118751808

A bit unfair on Ross Byrne? He is hardly limited to 'URC Cannon Fodder'. He has played 31 European Games. FWIW I think he is by far the best option to replace Sexton. Remember, Leinster chose to keep him and agreed to let Carbery go. They know quite a bit about rugby in Leinster.