Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

tooka

ringrose is a poor player and to suggest otherwise is just laughable

he offers nothing

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806932#Comment_118806932

Hahahahahaha

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806932#Comment_118806932

Had a strong start to the tournament against Wales and France, was quieter against Italy, but played well in the final few fixtures. Can go back even to November when he was excellent against New Zealand.

He's been pivotal to all our creative attacking play this season. I'm not sure how much more anyone could want.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806943#Comment_118806943

He was poor today as was aki

ringrose offers nothing going forward.

he is a weak link and the Scot’s showed that today

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806971#Comment_118806971

Linked is the official player statistics for this seasons Six Nations. Ringrose has made the second most carries of any player this tournament. He's also down as sixth for most metres made in this tournament as well. He's the only centre in the top 10 for either category. To say he offers nothing going forward is simply incorrect.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/

phily2002

Good tournament overall which could get better if England do us a favour. Going forward scrum is our main concern, worryingly there doesn't look like anyone coming through that will make a difference by the world Cup. Porter or Furlong get injured and we are in trouble at the world Cup.

ersatz

Today just confirmed for me how I felt after England, loads of room for refinement and improvement but a more and more settled squad who score lots of tries even when they aren't playing great. Same goes for defense, what did we conceded, 3 or 4 tries? That's pretty good considering we scored 24 or so over the tournament. Ireland are in a really good place 18 months out from a WC.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807126#Comment_118807126

We are indeed nd I can't understand some of the negativity around. For a start, a Triple Crown is not to be sniffed at. Secondly, much derided players like POM and Murray showed they still have a lot to offer.

highball14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806994#Comment_118806994

Back up props are definitely a concern. Is there anyone who might come through and improve things? Might one or two of Josh Whycherley, Kenyan Knox, Roman Salanoa or Tom Clarkson come into that bracket? Also when Tom O’Toole is available and with continued development he might be a good option come World Cup.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808095#Comment_118808095

Knox is from South Africa, I believe.

razorblunt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808095#Comment_118808095

Jeez Roman Salanoa would want to get himself into a condition to start a run of consecutive games. He’s either on an incredible run of bad luck with injuries or his body can’t handle the stress of professional rugby.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808331#Comment_118808331

Irish qualified.

according to Wikipedia - Because Knox joined Munster's academy before 31 December 2017, he qualified for Ireland based on residency in 2020, as this was before World Rugby changed the residency period a player must serve before qualifying for a country from three to five years.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808385#Comment_118808385

Thanks

brokenangel

Top scorers,

Bonus Point wins in all games apart from France

Not a bad tournament when you look at the shambles that is England/Scotland/Wales. Scotland and Wales want to sack managers with no idea what a new manager would bring with the same squads. England wants to keep a manager who had no idea or game plan with a huge squad. Turning Genge into a mini centre is about as low as English rugby has ever got

Main questions I would have, with WC coming up, do we offer Farrell etc a new contract before the WC as England etc will be coming sniffing around. To be honest I would take another 4 years of this type of rugby. I would be wrapping up POC etc anyway. Maybe a new coach under Farrell or 2 to liven it up

Next to the team. So we had Furling & Porter, moving Porter over means we now need backup. So the 4 provinces need to concentrate on getting players up to speed. Healy/Killer are not the answer at this stage of career.

Joey is not a top international 10, he is a quality 15 but not a 10. Ireland is messing around at this for 6 odd years now and it hasn't improved. Time to fix the issue and Carty isn't the answer either. R Byrne or B Burns is not either. So its down to the young lads. H Byrne, Healy, Flannary, etc. Pick 3 and get the provinces to start them non stop if fit and see if they are the answer. I personally wouldn't bring Sexton to NZ, but if bringing him then pick one game and he starts. That's it

Second row we need a big beefy lad, it was mentioned on a podcast about Coombes to second row for the WC? maybe an idea. I was watching Kleyn yesterday and yes he is the big lad but....what got into your head Joe

We need a backup to Conway on wing, Bala needs to progress. You could see the fear in France when LRZ came on at the end v France. We need that in our attack and Hansen is not a right winger.

It might sound like I have loads of issues but I don't.

We need to wrap Sexton up in cotton wool. Also to me yesterday it showed that after a tough game last week he was slower yesterday, his timing was a little bit off. So in a WC we need to plan what games he plays and that cannot be all the big games up to the qtrs. So we need an alternative. We need him in the Qtrs if we have any chance

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808412#Comment_118808412

Id agree with most of that..

Great to see Josh Wycherley start 3 games in a row for Munster. Hopefully he has a good battle with kilkoyne for that Jersey for the next 18 months.

I've mentioned his name before but the Irfu could do alot worse than get oli Jager back into the system for tighthead cover. Hopefully Tom o'toole gets some meaningful game time on the NZ tour too.

In the 2nd row big Joe mccarthy looks a prospect. Hopefully Thomas Ahearn can get a run of games too.

In the back row. I think someone has to come and take that 23 Jersey from Pom. Be it a Deegan, Penny, Baird, murphy, Pendergast, Coombes or Timoney. Should be some great battles in the interpros coming up.

Scrum half. I hope doak gets his opportunity.

Outhalf. Watching What happens in munster over the rest of the season will be intriguing. Do they move carberry to 15 and rotate healy and crowley? Harry isn't getting past Ross at leinster this year by the looks of it

Centre. I'd love to see frawley get a run of games and potentially we move away from aki as the game plan evolves further..

Back 3. We need to see more of Baloucoune , jimmy o brien and lowry at international level and less of hansen on the right wing.. will stockdale be back before the summer tour and have we seen the last of Earls also?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808499#Comment_118808499

You seem very keen to get rid of Bundee Aki. Why is that?

He's been one of our best, most consistent performers since his debut in 2017. He had a quiet game yesterday but over the course of the tournament he's been excellent. He offers everything you'd want from your 12.

Cosmo Kramer

This is the first time in a long time that loose head prop has been any sort of concern, but it really is an issue now. Nothing there at all below Porter.

Any prospect of Jack Boyle developing to the extent that he's an international option within 18 months or is it just too tight a timescale for it to happen? He'd be 21 by the RWC I think.

I think Porter and Healy made their international debuts at around 21 or so, so not impossible for a loose head.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808499#Comment_118808499

To be fair with JGP and Murray I think we have the combo for the WC. Doak is a great prospect and so is Casey but I just don't see them jumping either in the next 12 months. A great future for Ireland.

Ahearn etc are good players but will they be able to hold off a France scrum? we need a big lad, but a big lad who can also play. Kleyn is a big lad but play at international rugby he cannot do. I think it was Molecast who mentioned about moving Coombes to second row, even just for the WC, he just seems to have that natural "big un" build.

I am afraid to say the writing is on the wall for Earls, age catch's us all and the fact I haven't heard Earls mentioned all tournament kind of says it all. Lowe has that wing nailed down with Hansen as backup for me. Stockdale need to push either of them out which he can do because he is potentially a WC winger.

Its the other wing, Conway isn't getting any younger so we need Bala to step up.

Carbery to 15 for me. Keenan and him, either starting and the other on bench to cover a number of spots. Wasn't Keenan playing wing for a while for Ireland or am I gone mad? a hat trick v Italy springs to mind??? Covid memory...was he not on the wing then?

I think I am trying to convince myself...anyway

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808535#Comment_118808535

I still think we should have 4 centres at the WC, then play different combinations depending on the opposition. Trying to say between Aki/Henshaw/Ringrose which one is starter is pointless to me. They are all top class centres and we should play the best combo to meet the opposition.

Who is the 4th player is the ?? for me

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808535#Comment_118808535

It's a world cup with a limited panel size And he can only play 12 and at 33 he won't be a guaranteed starter. IMHO at 31 he shouldn't be.

Henshaw, Ringrose, Hume and potentially Frawley can cover more positions in a world cup. That's a big "If" frawley can get back fit and a run of games together..

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808628#Comment_118808628

This is an utterly bizarre argument. So our best 12 shouldn't be going to the RWC because he only covers one position?

I suppose Sexton, shouldn't be there so, because he only covers 10. Or Lowe, or JGP, or VDF.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808558#Comment_118808558

Keenan played his first 2 games on the left wing after the covid interrupted 6 nations. Think he scored 2 tries.

I think the 42 podcast suggested Coombes to 2nd row after he moved there v the dragons after Hodnet came on for klyen

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808642#Comment_118808642

Well I already said I don't think he is our best 12 and should not be a guaranteed starter. I believe henshaw is a better player at 12.

Lowe can play 15. And when fit he is currently the guaranteed starter at 11.

9 10 and 7 are specialist positions. You should have included hookers and props too.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808675#Comment_118808675

Lowe hasn't played 15 in about 6 years.

Fair enough, you don't think Aki is our best 12. But myself and the Irish coaches clearly don't agree or they wouldn't have picked him there for the last 2 games when Henshaw was fit to play. Henshaw was also shifted out to 13 for the 3rd Lions test to bring Aki into 12 (Which was was also Henshaw's best performance of the series).

Loads of 7s can cover across the back row. Curry, McCaw, Pocock, Tipuric, Navidi, Warburton, O'Brien, Kolisi all played lots of rugby at 6 or 8. So if you're holding lack of versatility against Aki, it's pretty hypocritical of you to not hold it against VDF

And loads of 10s can play 12 or 15 too. Carter, Farrell, Barrett, Wilkinson, Contepomi, Hernandez to name but a few. 9 and hooker yes would be the two most specialised positions.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808702#Comment_118808702

Henshaw maybe fit but he is not match fit, plus Henshaw had issues for a few season because the irish & leinster management kept firing him back into games. The last while they have slowly integrated him and it works out better

Henshaw is Ireland's best 12. Now I said it. Yes Aki is a great player but Henshaw is better.

When Henshaw and Aki play together they switch between 12 & 13 to confuse the opposition. Always have. So on the Lions tour they done similar but saying the last game was Henshaws best? the rugby on show for the Lions was awful and the other centre options given to Henshaw was less than optimal. He was also going to play better with a class centre like Aki

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808702#Comment_118808702

Lowe played international 15 less than 5 years ago v the lions..

I said if (a big if) someone like Frawley got decent quality game time into him he could displace Aki.

Who plays 7 instead of VDF in your team?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808726#Comment_118808726

Lowe played international 15 less than 5 years ago v the lions..

Maori ABs isn't international.

But ok I forgot they played D Mac at 10, I thought he was 15 and Lowe 11. I was thinking back to the Munster game in 2016

But if we're saying Lowe is a genuine option at 15, then Aki is an option at 13 (where he's played lots for Connacht). Which makes Lowe no more versatile than Aki.

The Frawley argument is a complete hypothetical. If Harry Byrne didn't keep getting injured, he'd be ahead of Carbery, but he's constantly crocked so he's not. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

brokenangel

How many times did Madigan play 9 when he was taken on the 2015 WC as a back up 9 :-)

In reality the match's are in France, if we need to fly in a player it can be done in a few hours. A squad is all of the players in France plus all the ones at home who might be brought in.....

Japan was different as it was difficult to get players over, France is not

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808740#Comment_118808740

There are rules to adding players to the squad. So it isn't a matter of hours. Once you call up a player they can't play for 48 hours

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808764#Comment_118808764

Yes I know. But you can still have a player over very easy when required. A lot easier than flying to Japan.

If the last WC was in France, would Henshaw and Carbery stayed at home to get fit and then bring into the squad afterwards? instead of flying unfit players over. With a WC so close it is easier to move players over and back even with restrictions

The time difference was also a big pain for flying players in