Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186138#Comment_119186138

Sorry but this is bollocks. Absolute bollocks.

Leinster didn't 'crumble to pieces' against LAR. We were leading until the 78th minute.

Both Leinster and Ireland have been punched in the face plenty of times and hung in to win.

I don't understand your loathing of Ireland and Farrell in particular, nor do I understand why you claim to be a Leinster fan but take such joy in our losses.

But you're talking bollocks. Did I mention that?

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186531#Comment_119186531

+1

Are we so spoilt as Irish rugby fans that we can’t lose a game without descending into theatrics? Every team loses at some stage. It’s sports. 6 months ago Ireland beat the All Blacks and we were the ‘in form team in the world’. Leinster lose to LAR in the last minute in our biggest game of the season and the Bulls turn us over 2 weeks later and now the much overused Mike Tyson attributed analogies come out? How did these fans cope in the 90s?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183609#Comment_119183609

Shakes head in George Hook

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186201#Comment_119186201

Looking for positives most likely, and it has been said before, but better we have these issues now than next season. We've had some serious setbacks last couple of years so all we can do is look at them and learn. Sport would break your heart

Dave_The_Sheep

Extra thanks to Podge and Former Former Former Former Former with some accurate posts that don't just swallow the "physicality" bullshit that is thrown out by lazy media ad nauseam. Jesus, it grates.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186729#Comment_119186729

and what really grates is the Irish rugby fans and boards posters who refuse to accept reality.

if you think Leinster are physical enough to win these games, you aren't paying attention. The Bulls absolutely had Leinster's number last night. Irish rugby has chosen skill over having pure physicality. it works, but on some days it falls apart as rugby is still built on fundamentals. look at the footage of Coetze standing beside Porter. If Porter was a Saffa he'd be a few KGS heavier.

the arrogance and ignorance of boards.ie posters continues. it will be the 2030s by the time some of you accept where Irish rugby is at.

we can win one test game on the tour. these results surely set a fire in their bellies and more imprtantly give them a good break.

but if its a 3 nil tour with poor performances Irish rugby is in a fatal position given these Leinster results.

some serious calls need to be made. Conan has been shocking. a shadow of the Lion player.

The idea that Jimmy O'Brien is a world beater as well and is a given on this tour as Keenan mark 2 is just nonsense.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187155#Comment_119187155

the arrogance and ignorance of boards.ie posters continues.

This is pretty hilarious, considering, in 11 days last November, you went from this:

what a conservative dog turd of a team. I sincerely hope Japan do a number on us. If thats the team for NZ we will be absolutely mullered. and probably will spell the end of this train wreck of a coaching ticket.

Farrell out for me. beyond useless, and Irish rugby repeating the same mistakes over and over. infuriating.are we hoping for World rankings is that it? like honestly why do we bother?

To this:

incredible performance. i hold my hand up. Farrell and indeed Catt have clearly changed the approach. it wasn't evident till Japan, but as Sexton said its only starting to click. critics like myself have gotten it completely wrong thankfully. AF has ticked every box we wanted to see. more caps, backing young players if the call is there, dropping underperforming "stars", thinking outside the box and allowing his players freedom while mantaining the best bits of Joe's regime.

I was sure we'd revert to the typical gameplan but after 10 minutes i was delighted how wrong i was. this is what we wanted to see. any of the critics, this is all we ever wanted. Ireland have always been good enough to play this game. the idea that it isn't in our dna to quote D'arcy was always bullshit. and up until Japan it wasn't clear that the management had seen the memo.

Probably Ireland's greatest ever performance all things considered.

Given the performances of the South African teams away from home and the performances of the second / third string Leinster squad down there I don't think it was arrogant or ignorant to believe Leinster would win last night at all. I think suggesting otherwise on the contrary is highly revisionist.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187215#Comment_119187215

i am talking about the comment on Leinster's physicality. that is all. the arrogance and narrative around Leinster in these last two clutch games has been all wrong. they are still a top class team, one of the best in Europe. However these two matches have to be a sort of wake up call.

As regards to Ireland? as i said we can win 1 game on tour. and yes farrell has changed our style and approach. and i admitted i was wrong in regards to him. All i asked was he changed approach and pick players on form. he did both, great. there was a time when it looked unlikely. 11 days changed alot. The six nations went well enough. This is the litmus test now. It wont make or break him obviously, he's now in situ for the WC. But it will tell alot, particularly after the wheels sort of falling off Leinster (who provide the backbone of the team)

however we will be under threat for the same reasons as Leinster. We have a real lack of bite and physicality. and that was on show last night. its utterly perverse to suggest otherwise.

We really need Ulster to put on a performance today.

But if they lose, the plus side is we are well rested for our first NZ tour in 10 years and most likely our last (given the coming changes).

And there has to be constant reflection on selection etc. Does Conan stay incumbent? has JOB really earned a spot? can Balacloune continue to be ignored?

there's an arrogance and hubris to Irish rugby that we really haven't earned. Sexton on the bench last night typified that. Last night was a disaster in the grand scheme of things. I hope a win on tour can go some way to rectifying that.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187155#Comment_119187155

The issue isnt a lack of physicality its the fact that the Leinster players last night and v La Rochelle were just soft, only a team of softies would care about the size of the opposition.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186320#Comment_119186320

19 tackles, none missed.

41 meters from 10 carrys(most from the Leinster forwards. No penalties given away and no drops. Got a good turnover towards the end as well.

What 8s should be ahead of him?

JODs had a good season but isnt an 8. He was outplayed by Deegan who can't get into match day squads at the business end.

Coombes has been injured a lot and hasn't hit the hights of last season when he's played

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187948#Comment_119187948

This is exactly what I was talking about a few days ago. People just making up a narrative that isn't there.

But of course I was called out by a poster who subsequently went off in a huff when I said he wasn't arguing in good faith.

Conan has had a fine season. It wasn't as good as last season but you'll find absolutely no number 8 in Irish rugby who was anywhere near that level this year, but yet Conan is still the problem and needs to be dropped etc.

VayNiice

The issue wasn't lack of size or physicality. The bulls did a great job of disrupting leinsters lineout and leinster made too many silly errors.

With Porter still adjusting to being at LH, the Leinster scrum is too unreliable. But that will certainly improve.

Also, this bullshit about leinster lacking "dog" is nonsense. Lads who are "dogs" like JoD can be penalty machines. Look at Kendellen v Ulster throwing handbags at Henderson meanwhile Ulster walk in an easy try with all that going on.

clsmooth

Leinster lacking dog is just not true. Look how the defended the line in the last 10 against LAR and against the Bulls after half time. That’s not what a team who lacks dog looks like. Quite the opposite.

Actually would have been better if they did ‘lack dog’ and let LAR score with 5 to go in order to get another attack. Some of the narratives flying around at the moment are ridiculous.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188017#Comment_119188017

Hi again!

The worst you'll have heard me say about Conan is that he's had a drop in form. That was in response to you saying Irish sports fans are very fickle (admittedly, after a single poster made a cheap remark; but you were the one who broadened the context).

But somehow this equates to me "just making up a narrative" and "not arguing in good faith". Despite the fact that you seem to agree with me about his form.

And if you think there isn't a number 8 that was anywhere near Conan's level this year, I suggest you haven't seen enough of Gavin Coombes. Munster's best player outside of Beirne, in a stop-start season for him.

Conan's had a drop in form. So has Doris. That's the reality. There's always likely to be calls for someone else to get a start in that context. That doesn't mean they've been poor. But equally it also doesn't mean everyone is making stuff up or arguing in bad faith, no matter how much you dislike it.

And as an aside while I'm here, any thoughts on the Leinster fans booing in the game last night?

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188131#Comment_119188131

Has Coombes been Munsters best player this year? Would have thought Beirne earlier in the season and POM towards the end. Kendellen and Ahern have come through. Otherwise not sure anyone from Munster has been particularly impressive this year unfortunately.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188147#Comment_119188147

I did say “outside of Beirne” to be fair but ya, that’s also fair, POM has had an exceptional season too. I’d say Coombes our next best and then probably Haley and Kleyn. Hodnett too but he’s so unlucky with injury.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188131#Comment_119188131

Hi aloooof.

You're either not reading my posts properly, or you're arguing in bad faith again.

I said nobody has shown anywhere near Conan's Lions form this year, unless you believe Gavin Coombes is playing to a Lions test-starting standard?

You also previously replied to my post which I was giving out about people making up absolute lies about Conan being 'houdini' all because he wasn't playing to his form last year, which is a pretty damn big bar.

You're here now, making the same arguement that I haven't made. Yes, Conan hasn't played to his form last season, but that does NOT mean he isn't playing well. There is a big difference in the argument I am making compared to the argument you think I'm making.

So before you run off again trying to play the victim, how about you learn to read posts properly.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188197#Comment_119188197

Fair enough; the “that level” was ambiguous as to whether you meant this seasons form or last, but thanks for the clarification, it makes sense now. (Now isn’t that easier than the ad-hominem stuff?)

And again, it wasn’t “people” saying Houdini. It was a single poster. You broadened it out.

Fwiw, I dont think he’s playing particularly well. He’s doing ok but I’d personally like to see Coombes get a go.

No thoughts on the boos tho?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188220#Comment_119188220

It's absolutely fine to want to see Coombes given a go, but to say Conan hasn't had a good season or isn't playing particularly well in order to justify it is just outright lies.

I couldn't give a toss about the booing anymore. Every provinces fans do it. A lot of it is borne out of frustration. I don't particularly like it but I'm not going to stay here pretending that it's the greatest moral outrage of our generation just to stick it to other provinces fans.

Shehal

Ulster love their knock on's dont they...

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188267#Comment_119188267

Fixed your post:

It's absolutely fine to want to see Coombes given a go, but to say Conan hasn't had a good season or isn't playing particularly well in order to justify it is just outright lies difference of opinion.

Also on this:

I couldn't give a toss about the booing anymore. Every provinces fans do it. A lot of it is borne out of frustration. I don't particularly like it but I'm not going to stay here pretending that it's the greatest moral outrage of our generation just to stick it to other provinces fans.

Eh, except you did exactly that in the Muster Ulster game where you posted the following after (checks notes) the home crowd booed a red card.

Some of the biggest whingers in the game.

But at least if you don't care about it any more, it means we won't see posts like this again, so I'm happy with that.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188293#Comment_119188293

Ah, so you kept perstering me with a question about booing so you could just throw up that little bit of a gotcha at the end? And you were the one leaving here crying because I said you were arguing in bad faith?

I didn't want to go there, but since you insist on it, Munster are the biggest whingers in the game. Nothing about last night changes that. I don't like it, but I've gone past the stage of caring anymore. My team lost and lost in such a disappointing way. I don't give a flying f*ck what the people in the ground were doing so spare me your false outrage.

Nice to know that you were only posting to try and catch me out on something because you have little else to be at and then proceed to play the victim because people called you out for what you are.

As for the Coombes/Conan thing, you have zero evidence whatsoever that Conan isn't playing particularly well. None. It's merely something you have made up because you just want your teams player to play.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188438#Comment_119188438

I’ve zero outrage about the booing, it’s exactly what I expect the home fans to do.

I’m just pointing out the inconsistency in your argument.

I haven’t said a single thing about you personally.

There’s an enormous difference. But you continue to go with the latter.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188528#Comment_119188528

You're comparing me saying I don't like it but I don't care anymore to a post saying Munster fans are worst at it, because they are. What about what I said is inconsistent?

You've come into the Ireland thread to try catch me out on a provincial matter, all because I said you argue in bad faith, you went off in a huff and acted like you were a victim.

Now, you've also come in here, made another argument out of something I didn't say, and you brought tribal provincial bollocks in here when I made it clear that I didn't actually want to get into it. You brought that up. Nobody else.

Well done you.

AbusesToilets

Depressing few weeks of rugby. Have to hope that this seasons failures will allow Farrell and co the opportunity to assess and implement adjustments that can bring success next season.

Very excited for the tour, think it could be the making of the team.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188644#Comment_119188644

The inconsistency is that when Munster fans booed you were straight in saying “biggest Whingers in the game”. When Leinster fans did it, you posted nothing until I brought it up here.

That’s practically the definition of posting in bad faith and provincial BS you’re accusing me of.

Same thing the other week when you were “calling people out” and claiming to take the moral high ground, but called teams “**** box teams” in the same post.

As for the Coombes / Conan thing; I think Coombes has had a better season. Think he offers a stronger carry and jackal threat. Has brilliant offloading too. I think Conan has been quiet in some of the games I’ve seen him in this season.

That doesn’t make it “lies / made up / arguing in bad faith”.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188798#Comment_119188798

Because Munster fans are the biggest whingers in the game. They're constantly at it. Every province does it but not to the level Munster fans do. I didn't want to bring up that particular point at all. You brought it up. Cop the f*ck on.

And you didn't say 'I just thought Coombes had a better season', you said "I don't think Conan has played particularly well". There is zero basis for the latter remark. None. It's something you have literally made up to justify wanting your teams player to start for Ireland. Nothing more, nothing less.

aloooof

I’m curious if any others on here also think Conan hasn’t played particularly well this season?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188862#Comment_119188862

Because Munster fans are the biggest whingers in the game

Lies / made up. (It’s certainly an easier way to argue, I’ll give you that…)

We have a difference of opinion.

Do you think Conan should start for Ireland? Do you think he’s had a better season than Coombes?

Presumably you think yes? Now imagine I responded with something as dismissive (and dare I say, condescending) as the following in response:

There is zero basis for the latter remark. None. It's something you have literally made up to justify wanting your teams player to start for Ireland. Nothing more, nothing less.