Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Must love hardship

All Blacks squad for the Tests against Ireland

Forwards

Hookers

Dane Coles (Hurricanes, Wellington)

Codie Taylor (Crusaders, Canterbury)

Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs, Waikato)

Props

Aidan Ross* (Chiefs, Bay of Plenty)

George Bower (Crusaders, Otago)

Nepo Laulala (Blues, Counties Manukau)

Ofa Tuungafasi (Blues, Northland)

Karl Tu'inukuafe (Blues, North Harbour)

Angus Ta'avao (Chiefs, Auckland)

Locks

Samuel Whitelock (Crusaders, Canterbury) Brodie Retallick (Chiefs, Hawke's Bay) Scott Barrett (Crusaders, Taranaki) Josh Lord (Chiefs, Taranaki) Tupou Vaa'i (Chiefs, Taranaki)

Loose Forwards

Pita Gus Sowakula* (Chiefs, Taranaki)

Sam Cane - Captain (Chiefs, Bay of Plenty) Dalton Papalii (Blues, Counties Manukau) Ardie Savea (Hurricanes, Wellington) Akira Ioane (Blues, Auckland) Hoskins Sotutu (Blues, Counties Manukau)

Backs

Halfbacks

Folau Fakatava* (Highlanders, Hawkes Bay) Aaron Smith (Highlanders, Manawatu) Finlay Christie (Blues, Tasman)

First five-eighths

Stephen Perofeta* (Blues, Taranaki)

Beauden Barrett (Blues, Taranaki)

Richie Mo'unga (Crusaders, Canterbury)

Mid-fielders

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck* (Blues, Auckland)

Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs, Waikato)

Jack Goodhue (Crusaders, Northland)

Rieko Ioane (Blues, Auckland)

David Havili (Crusaders, Tasman)

Outside backs

Leicester Fainga'anuku* (Crusaders, Tasman) Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes, Taranaki) Will Jordan (Crusaders, Tasman) Caleb Clarke (Blues, Auckland) Sevu Reece (Crusaders, Tasman)

Unavailable for selection due to injury - Joe Moody, Anton Lienert-Brown, Ethan Blackadder.

Unavailable for selection due to New Zealand Rugby return to play criteria - Patrick Tuipulotu, Damian McKenzie.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194448#Comment_119194448

Absolutely nobody is saying anything like that.

But he has had a really good season. He’s extremely strong in the tackle and around the field. We’ve seen a number of times how Munster’s maul d suffers when he goes off injured. And he’s immeasurably improved his handling this season.

Whether that’s enough to get in the squad remains to be seen, but he’s still only 28, which is relatively young in lock terms.

If there was an injury in their respective positions, and we had to rely on one coming on, I’d choose Kleyn over Loughman every time, and it’s not even close.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194537#Comment_119194537

The forward pack is as expected. The props are a bit of a lottery. Apart from the 2 Blues THs, no one has really put their hand up demanding selection. The one surprise in the pack is Sowakula. He has some eye catching moments but I don't know if he is test quality. Probably just trying to keep him out Fiji's team 😆 Thought Frizzell or Jacobson might have been there. The problem with the forwards is Cane. I don't think he should be in the starting line up but he is the captain so of course he will be.

The big shock in the backs is TJ Perenara not making it. In fairness both Fakatava and Christie have been in better form and Smith is world class. Also TJ plays a slightly different style to the others. He plays more like a French 9 in that he is a playmaker rather than a distributor. I assume he will be playing in the Maori games. Perofeta's inclusion is a surprise but he has been playing some great rugby is a fantastic kicker. Mainly plays FB for the Blues but him and Barrett are constantly switching throughout the match.

No surprises in the midfield or outside backs but it will be interesting where Jordie plays. Starting to get a little bit excited about this tour now.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195570#Comment_119195570

give us your 23 for the opening test please?

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194436#Comment_119194436

The issue is the Irish pack are just soft, it doesnt matter how tall they are or how many KG's they put on, they are still soft.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195766#Comment_119195766

I disagree! I think that if there is a soft side it's due to depth issues. I would guess that there's not many tier 1 sides that fear Healy or anyone of the mediocrity we have at out half. The pack is young in key areas, hooker in terms of experience. Loose head in terms of lack of quality.

I daresay, no one thought that S.A were soft 5 years ago? They were gash, but not soft. Nobody is saying that the kiwis are soft. They had a poor end to the year. Our problems are depth! If we go into a world cup with Cian Healy as the back up lh and Porter hasn't come around, we're fucked!

Clegg

The touring squad will be named tomorrow rather than Wednesday as originally announced. Hopefully Baloucoune isn't out long term with his latest injury. Would be a shame not to see him get a chance.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1536314785419206657?t=tioM8nAdNLWv7br1IV5BBg&s=09

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195638#Comment_119195638

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe
2. Codie Taylor
3. Nepo Laulala
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Samuel Whitelock
6. Akira Ioane
7. Dalton Papalii
8. Ardie Savea
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Caleb Clarke
12. Jack Goodhue
13. Rieko Ioane
14. Sevu Reece 
15. Will Jordan
16. Samisoni Taukei'aho 
17. George Bower
18. Ofa Tuungafasi 
19. Scott Barrett
20. Hoskins Sotutu
21. Folau Fakatava
22. Richie Mo'unga
23. Jordie Barrett

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196450#Comment_119196450

That's the same midfield that struggled last year, right?

Yeah_Right

Yeah but they are much better this year. Reiko has been class this season. It was a toss up for me between Goodhue and Tupaea at 12.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196517#Comment_119196517

Not Havili?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196450#Comment_119196450

Hard to argue against that, other than questioning if Foster is brave enough to leave "team captain" Cane out of the 23 altogether.

That back 3 and JB are incredibly lethal.

The front row and reserves are not formidable though, and perhaps an area where we may actually get some decent return. That centre partnership wouldnt worry me too much either. Goodhue has played 2 games at 12 in two years, and reiko doenst have the ball game to get those wingers into the game. He works at 13 for the blues because of the ability of perofeta and barrett to step in as second pivot and playmake. I think we could get at them.

a Tupeua / Goodhue centre would be more dangerous imo.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196492#Comment_119196492

it was ALB and Reiko last year with havili on the bench. i recall havili came on pretty early for ALB

Yeah_Right

After I wrote that team out, the 2nd playmaker did occur to me. Reiko has to be on the pitch and if he is going to be the 13 for RWC they have to stick with him.

Foster won't leave Cane out but I think he should.

And you're right about the props. Nothing to fear there but there's no one else.

Yeah_Right

What are peoples expectations for this tour for Ireland? What would be a success? What is the bare minimum and what would be a failure?

From an AB fans perspective a success would be 3 nil and 2 nil wins but I feel that would just paper over the cracks. I expect it will be 2-1 to the ABs and 1-1 with the Maoris. Thats the bare minimum. Anything less, I would consider it a failure.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195850#Comment_119195850

Ah right, so if our substitute LH prop is better it means the other 22 players on the field wont be put on their ass every 2nd or 3rd hit? I didnt think it was possible to come up with an even more stupid argument then the previous one...it doesnt matter who our 2nd choice LH is, the fact is the pack is still soft.

I would guess not many countries would little to no other option so little game time against other their 1 nations, as they say fail to prepare prepare to fail.

My worry here is we are already falling into the same trap as in 2019 as in we are already making weak excuses this far out instead of doing the work to resolve the issues.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196644#Comment_119196644

And you're right about the props. Nothing to fear there but there's no one else.

Oli Jager often comes up in discussion here as a potential target for Munster but we get told he's going to stay in NZ and become an All Black. Is he in the conversation at all?

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

I'm not sure the Māori are up to much. It's all very well blowing away the USA, but I think they've struggled when opposition have stood up to them. My perception is that they spend a lot of time on cultural things and maybe take their eye off the ball on the rugby side. I'd be disappointed if Ireland slipped up in either of the midweek games. The only thing that would make up for that would be getting a result in a Test.

Bare minimum in the Tests should be making all the games close. It's no good having a repeat of the 2012 series.

Winning a Test would be a good result. Winning the series would be fantastic.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

Winning one test would be a success, or even a whitewash but performing credibly will be OK if we learn something about some of the fringe guys in the process.

Losing two games to the Maori would be a disaster.

Podge_irl

Ah right, so if our substitute LH prop is better it means the other 22 players on the field wont be put on their ass every 2nd or 3rd hit?

This is just a complete fabrication so its rather difficult to suggest anything to "fix" it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

Expectation is 3 close tests, but no wins. Would be happy to be wrong and I won't be thrilled with that outcome. 1 win is a success.

Hard to know re the Maori games without seeing what kind of team we put out.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196872#Comment_119196872

Not from what I'm hearing and seeing. He's good but no better than the other props in NZ (who are generally pretty average) and think his carrying is probably worse than most of the others.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

I'm going with slightly higher expectations than the others. NZ are not what they were. There should be no fear any more.

Success is winning the tour. Losing 2-1 is not a success, but it's not terrible either depending on how those 2 losses went. A NZ whitewash would be very disappointing and hard to grasp any straws from, so I'd say the absolute bare minimum is winning a game, but I think Ireland have moved beyond the mindset of celebrating this sort of thing more than what it is.

Couldn't care less about the Maori games. Totally meaningless.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196872#Comment_119196872

we're told that by the guy himself, but theres not much sign that its going to happen for him. hes there 6 years at this stage.

when Alaalatoa joined leinster last season the gate was open for him to cement his place down as the crusaders starting 3 but he hasnt done that. a mixture of injuries and average performances has meant that hes started only 7 of 15 super rugby round games this season, although he has started the QF and SF and will probably start the final. hes under pressure from newell and williams for the 3 shirt

If he can make a statement on Saturday against the blues he may force himself into the reckoning for an AB short, but i havent seen anything from him really to suggest he is good enough to make it.

RichieRich_89

I think Ireland can target that 1st Test. NZ usually start their season slowly. Farrell is key. His defences have frustrated NZ down through the years.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

a success would be a tour win.

an acceptable result would be one win and 2 close games

a disappointing result would be 3 - 0

a completely unacceptable would be a 3 - 0 where we were never in with a chance in any game and were blown away in 2.

i dont really care too much about the maori games because it will be the irish seconds playing them. novelty factor and good to see how the depth chart looks, but no more

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197140#Comment_119197140

And let's be honest, if it was Alaalatoa blocking his pathway it's not exactly a great sign. Alaalatoa is a decent but unspectacular player from what I have seen of him.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196743#Comment_119196743

A success would be a series win, a positive outcome would be a win plus some more steps forward in our evaluation and a failure would be a 3-0 loss.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196832#Comment_119196832

The pack is not soft! Lads are not getting bowled over! Depth wise we're in trouble. Where do you see the Irish pack getting minced? I haven't see it since the 2019 season!

Dubinusa

I'd expect a win at least! I don't think we are too far away from being a top threat.

I couldn't care less about the scores. I don't want us to win a series and then fall into the usual shyte that we fall into and get obliterated at the world cup. 2019 sticks in my mind. Our hopes and expectations and then... the reality! We were shyte! The team were geebags and the coaching was worse.