Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Ardillaun

How serious is Baloucoune’s injury?

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200995#Comment_119200995

He was the defence coach but he was promoted to "senior coach" for this season

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201014#Comment_119201014

A single player you disagree with doesn’t equate to this:

Another regime where it's harder to get dropped from the Ireland team than to get onto it. Just Irish Rugby repeating the same mistakes every RWC cycle.

Farrell has given 25 new caps in his 2.5 years. More than any other coach I can remember, he’s happy to give guys a chance.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201296#Comment_119201296

Loads of new caps, yet Murray and Carbery are still our no.2 halfbacks despite countless poor performances from both of them. Cooney's been better than Murray for years now but he's never gotten a chance. Burns may not be a world beater but he's clearly a better 10 than Carbery.

I don't agree with Earls being there, but I'll give Farrell the benefit of the doubt and assume had Baloucoune and Conway been fit, he wouldn't be.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201014#Comment_119201014

I’ve already said my piece on that. The point of my post wasn’t specific to Murray. It’s this idea that we are still a side where the incumbents can’t be ousted. It’s absolute garbage. Porter, Kelleher, Sheehan, Doris, Connors, JGP (who is there ahead of Murray!), Lowe and Keenan are guys who came into the 23 and who came in ahead of someone who had not retired or left the game through injury. We do not have an issue with coaches refusing to back other players. We just don’t. They’ve been happy to select young guys, guys who aren’t first choice at their province, guys who are there on nothing more than potential etc. They are objectively not afraid to back others.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201403#Comment_119201403

Cooney made his bed when he had a cut off the Irish captain in the press. He will never play for Ireland again after that. Burns must not be rated in camp, although I’d have had him in there.

You’ve made a general sweeping statement which is objectively wrong. A couple of exceptions where there isn’t a clear better option doesn’t change that.

AbusesToilets

Don't think Casey has a kicking game that's up to standard at HC level yet, let alone international.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201591#Comment_119201591

Yep. He can also be a bit headless too. The quick tap against Ulster being a prime example. It wasn’t on at all and Ulster had it covered. He was lucky the ref didn’t allow it. He’s plenty young enough to iron that stuff out but he’s still a bit off and if we are going with Carbery on the bench we probably need Murray’s experience and control more.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201546#Comment_119201546

Cooney made his bed when he had a cut off the Irish captain in the press. He will never play for Ireland again after that.

I would say he had a cut off the Irish captain because he knew his bed was already made and he was never going to play for Ireland again anyway.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201403#Comment_119201403

2 of the 3 guys you’ve mentioned were starters before Farrell came in. Not exactly cutting evidence it’s impossible to get dropped.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201591#Comment_119201591

In fairness, neither did Murray to begin with and it ended up being nearly his strongest suit.

I've a lot of time for Casey, and guys like him are going to learn a huge amount on this tour.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201679#Comment_119201679

Probably, but that’s a whole different conversation. And not one I fancy getting into again. Suffice it to say that the general jist remains the same.

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201546#Comment_119201546

I've written about this before and I am copying sections of those posts so apologies if any of this seems disjointed or slightly out of context but but John Cooney did not have a go at the Irish captain in the press.

Similarly with Cooney last summer he made a comment praising Jack Carty for taking onboard his comments and changing how he interacted with scrum halves and it got turned into a Sexton bashing comment by papers looking for some clicks

The following is a quote from the Irish times around that time

in a video for the Zurich and Rugby Players’ Ireland Tackle Your Feelings campaign with his former Connacht half-back partner Jack Carty, Cooney speaks of the encouragement which the latter gave him, intimating this was not the case when he worked with Johnny Sexton at Leinster and Ireland.

“Potentially. When I first started playing with Leinster I did find it quite difficult, the way he spoke to me. We did play a bit with Ireland. I don’t know, I won’t really expand on that too much.

Cooney never mentioned Sexton, as shown from the above quote from the article he never mentioned Sexton. The quote from him is clearly in response to a question from the reporter and is very diplomatic. If you go back to initial post I talked about how a positive comment Cooney made about Carty got turned into a negative comment about Sexton. I've written about this particular incident a couple times before if you want to see where I'm coming from on this. In particular I'd recommend actually watching the video interview I've linked to see why what Cooney said has really been warped into Cooney makes anti Sexton comments

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201694#Comment_119201694

I don’t really want to get into it tbh. It’s one of those ones that can develop a life if it’s own. From recollection though there was a second interview around the same time that when you take both together basically painted a picture of him not liking Sexton or how he spoke to people at all. Which I get. But if Farrell is going to pick one or the other we all know who he’ll pick.

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201715#Comment_119201715

That's fair enough, I think I cover that in my response, but essentially in the 2nd interview he didn't directly mention Sexton but instead responded to a question about him. Unless there is another one I missed at the time.

Must love hardship

Decent panel considering the enforced injury absentees.

Kelleher is a big loss but thankfully the New Zealand front row is maybe not the most dynamic at scrummaging.

If we were heading for South Africa it might be a different story.

3 things id like to see on the tour

1.I hope we see an improved use of the bench. getting the majority on with 15/ 20 minutes to pay where possible. Rather than leaving subs sit on the bench for 78 minutes. I think this tactic cost leinster in the last 2 games..

2.Id also like to see a few more back row combinations tried. Doris, vdf and Conan have gone well at times but maybe it's gone a little stale lately. They have played plenty of times together this year for club and Country and would be great to mix up the selections.

3. Finally I'd love to see Ringrose play 14 and Hume play 13 outside Henshaw.

With Conway and Balacoune injured we are short right wingers and could be a great opportunity to try it out. With Larmour or Earls 23.

Dubinusa

Anyone think we'll be mauled? Will we be bullied? Will defeat lead to the notion that our lads bathing bubble baths while the kiwis bathe in snake infested swamps! Will Farrell be found out? Are Ireland producing marshmallows for the rugby team? Lol

Alternatively, if we win the series! NZ are just preparing for the rwc! We've peaked! We're #1 again.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200956#Comment_119200956

Hang on, are you saying Sexton hasn't been playing well?

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201744#Comment_119201744

I'm usually fairly critical of POM but he's earned his spot. Been playing out of his skin lately.

On Casey, he absolutely could get better, but there are guys who are playing at a higher level right now.

leakyboots

The coaches must see something serious in Harry Byrne to be included over Burns/Healy based on this season. I'd wager if he wore a different colour club jersey he wouldn't be there but anyway, hope he goes well if he gets a shot.

Not too much else to quibble apart from that - maybe Cian Healy could have been left at home, I think his race is run at this level.

Surprised Loughman made it ahead of Wycherley, more solid scrummager I guess. Wycherley's hands are fantastic, Loughman isn't bad in that regard either. Some meteoric rise for McCarthy, this tour will be great experience for him.

I think people are overestimating Murray's poor form, I don't think there's anything he can do to convince people otherwise as it's just a thing now even if he plays well. He still has something to offer at this level in my opinion.

Would love to see Coombes get a go in a test and Hume also.

molloyjh

The colour of Harry Byrnes club jersey has nothing to do with anything. Why is that even still a thing!? Our out half options beyond Sexton are poor. Maybe they just see potential in Harry Byrne and want to invest in that now in the hope it pays off post Sexton. Burns and Healy are good, but they aren’t top level Test quality. None of the others are after Sexton. So looking past them could just be forward planning.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199467#Comment_119199467

i stand by what i said, the journos that are ex pros tend to be good but the rest are pretty poor and know very little of the game. something like off the ball's coverage is pure rubbish when they dont have a former player on. even matt williams is an improvement on most of the rest.

who said 'we'? i clearly said im a munster fan so i have no skin in the game and if anything i wanted to see some former munster players win some silverware, but wayne barnes was incredibly poor and should have given more than one yellow in the game

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200544#Comment_119200544

cant understand that one, can only think that its even longer term planning than the world cup and someone like frawley will go as 3rd choice cover with almost no experience, only playing 10 in an emergency. otherwise, i cant see why farrell would take the 3rd choice (at best) leinster out half on tour, he cant see him as a viable rwc option right now, right?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200557#Comment_119200557

id love to have seen him go, but being second choice in a poor munster team didnt make him scream 'pick me' unfortunately

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200807#Comment_119200807

re: murray, its become the new 'thing' to just **** on him endlessly. hes been up and down this season most definitely, but for me hes averaged out at around a 6/6.5 and hes played some really great games against the bigger opposition. people dont seem to understand that he slows the game down because thats exactly what JVG was asking of him

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200922#Comment_119200922

HB is third choice though and has barely played against decent opposition, at least someone like JGP was consistently close to breaking into the starting team

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201756#Comment_119201756

no to playing a 13 on the wing

Interested Observer

Have just seen from one of the rugby journos on Twitter that Balacoune was with the squad yesterday awaiting scan results, which have ruled him out for 4-6 weeks. You'd have to think he'd be in the squad otherwise, I would assume ahead of Earls.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202400#Comment_119202400

jimmy o brien surely, earls is still one of our best wingers and hes probably the fastest out of them apart from RB

Must love hardship

Of only the 40 named. What 9 players would ye leave out for a world cup squad of 31 players?

I dont mean replace with players not named or currently injured. Just which would ye leave out from the squad named Today.

VayNiice

I'd love to see Tom O'Toole get some meaningful game time on this tour. I haven't seen much of him but he was rock solid against Steven Kitshoff at the weekend. We're obviously blessed with Furlong, but if Moore was fit and then you add in Bealham (I personally rate him quite highly) I think we're looking pretty solid at TH.

Pretty gutted for Kelleher!

theVersatile

Ultimately, the last three tens to have good performances in Irish green have been Sexton, Joey and Harry (albeit against very average opposition). I can understand why Farrell has stuck to his guns. They just seem to fit the Irish game plan better than Ross, Burns, etc.

Murray is also still the best late game manager on the island. Sure he's lacking in tempo, I won't deny the obvious (although I think that factor is also exaggerated to the extreme these days) - if were two points up with ten minutes to go away in New Zealand (which I imagine is the exact scenario Farrell is envisioning l, and partly why he's continued to be selected), I'd back Murray to come in and manage the game and hold onto that lead above any other nine in the country.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202812#Comment_119202812

Trying to game manage that situation has failed us multiple times in the past. What's won us games has been continuing to attack. Which is not something I'd want Murray for.

stephen_n

Sexton is well past his best but still by a long long way better than any of the other 10’s. To the point that it’s not even a competition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200956#Comment_119200956