Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349094#Comment_119349094

Or perhaps the constant moving that the Kiwis were up to ahead of the scrums in the first test was something they knew they couldn’t get away with thereafter. Look back at those scrums and how they weren’t even close to stable when the ball was going in. Then look at the other 2 tests and you’ll see the scrums were a lot more stable throughout.

AbusesToilets

That scrum on our 5 around the 75th minute was so satisfying. We took the hit and sagged a bit, then surged forward.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327953#Comment_119327953

As a Connacht fan, Aungier isn’t anywhere near international standard yet.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350282#Comment_119350282

Especially when you consider we just rotated both props at that stage.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345985#Comment_119345985

that has happened with each of the last few coaches tbh. eos and kidney brought the team on massively but faltered towards the end and so that reflects on their tenures as a whole. could even argue that happened to gatland too but the team were poor at the start of his reign too

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347819#Comment_119347819

could argue that we were an inconsistent decision on the refs part from losing on saturday too though. porter should have been off and if we were down to 14 for the rest of the game i would think NZ claw the difference back

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347819#Comment_119347819

Wasn't it the second test or third test when Willie cleaned out the Irish player in the air which was a red card and wasn't given

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355890#Comment_119355890

3rd test. Clear as day light red. Prob TOH's last chance to make an impression in a test too sadly.

theboss80

Alot of the language around the squad has definitely changed alot, must be down to some of the work being done by Gary Keegan on the mental side of the game in the background imo. This new belief in their abilities is obvious in every interview being done lately. Love it.

Anyone know if it was announced who we play in WC warm ups yet?

Would guess England and Wales and maybe Italy??

pickarooney

I really hate those games. They're invariably rubbish and a case of "who will miss the WC with a serious injury picked up in a nothing match?"

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357381#Comment_119357381

Someone mentioned we play Scotland, which I thought was crazy as they are in our group

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357618#Comment_119357618

They are also really what you would call a pre season friendly in rugby. Not sure why they count against World Ranking.

Clegg

VDF has been incredible this season. He was our best player in the Six Nations, the best player in the Champions Cup and the best player across the New Zealand tour. I think, performance wise, he's having one of the best seasons an Irish player has ever had.

https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1549408726104174592?t=38H13j4GUH8JgS9LeV22CA&s=09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359881#Comment_119359881

Yeah, he's been absolutely incredible, at almost all parts of the game.

To me, he's World Player of the Year at this point. He likely would have suffered a little by Leinster's lack of trophies, but his performances in this winning series should offset that.

The main opposition in the YTD is Gregory Aldritt, who had a superb 6N and Champions Cup, winning both, but he was rested for the Japan tour this summer.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359939#Comment_119359939

WPOTY is judged on international only I am pretty sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359988#Comment_119359988

Ah okay, interesting. I didn't know that. I think on that basis, Josh has a legitimate case to be the current leading candidate. Obviously Northern hemisphere players currently have the advantage, given the RC hasn't been played, but the three candidates for 6N Player of the Tournament were Aldritt, Dupont and VdF.

Dupont and Aldritt both got the summer off, so to me Josh would be the guy right now.

TRC10

When you have a player as good as Henshaw, you play him in his best position. I've been saying he should be our first choice 13 for a while but hopefully Saturday has ended this debate. He's does a great job at 12 because he's a phenomenal player. But you get way more impact from him at 13, in attack and in defence. He's top three 13s in the world, play him there.

joedamuss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359939#Comment_119359939

And he's such a sound young man, very humble and unassuming, best openside in the world hands down.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360185#Comment_119360185

at his best ringrose is better than him at 13 but his form can be patchy. henshaw and ringrose are the best combo though by some distance as good as he is with aki. a combo with a 12 like frawley could work well for henshaw but hes not creative enough for 13

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360571#Comment_119360571

hes not creative enough for 13

I hear this said a lot and I don't get it. What does Ringrose "create" that Henshaw doesn't? What do people want Henshaw to be doing to be defined as "creative"? He's runs good lines, he's got great feet, power, and a really good passing and kicking game. What exactly does Ringrose do better?

Would someone like Jonathan Davies in his prime have been more creative than Henshaw? I don't think so.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360703#Comment_119360703

he runs good lines - exactly, he runs good (great even) lines but he rarely creates the space/hole for himself. the walk-in try on sat is a good example of this - the space was created by sheahen and aki (there was alot more to it obviously but just going on the scoring phase) and henshaw ran a great line to take him even further away from defenders.

saying he isnt very creative isnt meant to be a slight on him by any means. tuilagi gets called one of the best centres in the world when hes fit (dont agree personally but thats a different story) and he isnt creative. i wouldnt class DDA as a creative centre either and hes up there with the worlds best. chris farrell is a great centre too but he isnt creative. the key to a great centre pairing is a combination of both - hence why as fantastic as DDA and Farrell were for Munster, their attack was arguably better with scannell at 12 and either of those at 13. aki has definitely improved his passing etc recently but henshaw and ringrose is still the best combination. i would like to see them swapping occasionally in games though and get henshaw running off ringrose rather than the other way around, if even just to keep defences guessing

in short - henshaw is a 'reactive' centre rather than a 'proactive' centre like ringrose, hume, conrad smith etc

also, does he have a really good passing and kicking game? i wouldnt say his passing is poor or anything like that but i wouldn't say it would be one of his strengths all the same. i dont think i can recall him kicking anytime recently either to be honest

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360793#Comment_119360793

aki has definitely improved his passing etc recently

This infuriates me. Aki could always pass, we just hadn't seen it in an Ireland shirt before Farrell took over. Connacht won a Pro12 playing scintillating rugby with Aki and Henshaw playing together.

the walk-in try on sat is a good example of this - the space was created by sheahen and aki (there was alot more to it obviously but just going on the scoring phase) and henshaw ran a great line to take him even further away from defenders.

No, that's just how that move played out. Just because in that particular play, other guys created the space and Henshaw had an easy run in, does not mean that Henshaw is incapable of creating space. He absolutely is.

in short - henshaw is a 'reactive' centre rather than a 'proactive' centre

Yeah I just fundamentally disagree with this. I know Henshaw was used as a bosh merchant for years, but he's so much more. And I feel like people have a warped perception of him because of this. He has an incredibly well rounded game.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360867#Comment_119360867

some of aki's passing in the past was pretty shocking for someone playing international rugby, that's largely been ironed out recently - which is fantastic, it means he's moving closer to someone like nonu, which wasnt really the case in the past

for henshaw's try, if he was running at 12 and aki was at 13 i dont see it going the same way. henshaw doesnt have the timing of pass to put someone into a hole that aki had, i see him probably going himself if he were at 12 (and powering over most likely)

i mean, you can disagree with it, thats fine. the evidence imo shows otherwise.

and yes i would have said JD was a creative centre

AbusesToilets

The Jonathan Davies who was as likely to toss the ball into the stands as his man?

Ardillaun

So do we pick the same forwards for SA and England as we had against NZ?

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360948#Comment_119360948

the JD that regularly ripped ireland to shreds for years........

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360970#Comment_119360970

i think thats an interesting one. pundits etc regularly talk about bringing guys like jean kleyn into the team against bigger packs to add bulk, but i think there is a very fine balance to be found with that. while a bit of ballast is needed, we're never going to compete with teams like SA in terms of size so why bother? imo the way to beat them is to play smarter and therefore guys like beirne would be the way to go

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360928#Comment_119360928

Aki didn't put anyone through a hole. He was through the hole, all he had to do was draw the man and pass.

You're saying Robbie Henshaw wouldn't have been able to execute a simple two-on-one? That kind of undermines your entire argument.

I think you're massively underrating Henshaw to be honest. You seem to see him as a hard running, direct, crash centre. But he's so much more. His passing is much better than Jonathan Davies'.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361152#Comment_119361152

Can we not mention poor old Jean when it comes to Ireland, that was and probably still is one of Joe's biggest mistakes in his coaching career

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361335#Comment_119361335

i was just using him as an example of a big lad tbh

and in fairness, he's been playing really well for munster recently, wouldnt have surprised me if he had went to nz

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361357#Comment_119361357

Im not really into slagging off players, Jean has proven he is a quality URC player.

A lot more benefit at looking at young players like Ahearn/Big Joe who will potentially have a higher ceiling