Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

El_Duderino 09

dublin49 wrote: »

Sexton deserves a few years gratitude contract if he wants it.He is a national treasure ,IMO the greatest flyhalf for us since I started watching back in the 70's and perhaps ever.Crucial to all our great days for last 10 years .When you think of free money that gets handed out to politicans etc I would love to see Sexton get shown some appreciation for the pleasure he has brought the Irish Rugby public down the years .

Then they should kick him up stairs and make him a brand ambassador or whatever.
Unless he’s on a pay-per-play contract, or it’s mostly covered by private money, then it’s not good business.

A one year contract, to phase him out, would have been a good result. But a contract that means he could be the starting out half in the 2023 World Cup, is a terrible idea.

But, at the end of the day, it’s only sport. I don’t follow Ireland only when they win, I follow them because I love the sport and I love following the teams and players.

Buer

aloooof wrote: »

I think it's been overblown in previous seasons, but it has become an increasingly regular issue this season, which is a worry for an ageing player.

I think he's been taken off injured in 4 out of his 6 total starts this season? In 3 of those games, it's been before the 30 minute mark (Wales, Connacht and Dragons).

It is becoming more of an issue and that's simply going to be the case for a player at his age. I don't agree with the 2 year supposed extension which I think is over the top because of that.

But regarding those games for Leinster, I'd suggest that he would be remaining on the field if it was for Ireland. If Sexton has a sniffle on the pitch for Leinster, he's whipped off. Just as he was against Munster and is miraculously fully fit for this weekend. The word "precaution" must feature in about 80% of Leinster substitutions featuring him.

ionadnapokot

Is he fully fit this weekend?

Why has the team announcement been moved to Friday at 12?
I dont think he is right. His Hamsrtiings and calf are a long standing issue.

This is the third consecutive year he has come into the 6N off the back of an injury.

aloooof

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Is he fully fit this weekend?

Why has the team announcement been moved to Friday at 12?
I dont think he is. His Hamsrtiings and calf are a long standing issue.

This is the third consecutive year he has come into the 6N off the back of an injury.

It's a Sunday game so I'd say it could be that?

UAEguy2020

I don’t take much notice of the length of the contract. We must remember there is more to this than just what happens on the field, Sexton has a big family of mouths to feed and for now does have aspirations of making the next World Cup so he’s got to get the best deal he can get from a financial perspective and being the Irish captain & best 10 right now he’s in the perfect position to negotiate the deal he wants, for all we know he might not even make the next World Cup with Carbery only coming into the prime years for his career in 2023 and you still got Harry Byrne who knows who else over the next 2.5 years.

Sanjuro

mfceiling wrote: »

2020

7 wins from 10 games.

11 new caps.

42 different players used.

Look, if Farrell doesn't drop the entire squad from the Schmidt era, bring in 40 brand new young players, and completely throw out the playbook from the last few years, he cant be seen as anything but an abject failure. He must look for a new way to play. Play 15 forwards. Have the opposition fly half mugged on the way into the stadium. Maybe try and sneak a 16th player onto the pitch. He MUST go absolutely hog wild and try new things. Or it's failure failure failure.

UAEguy2020

I’m also a little surprised at the Friday announcement, we seem to have done away with naming XV’s on Tuesday, wonder was the Doris situation quite a late development and the coaching staff are taking more time to decide what the best back row is.

mfceiling

Sanjuro wrote: »

Look, if Farrell doesn't drop the entire squad from the Schmidt era, bring in 40 brand new young players, and completely throw out the playbook from the last few years, he cant be seen as anything but an abject failure. He must look for a new way to play. Play 15 forwards. Have the opposition fly half mugged on the way into the stadium. Maybe try and sneak a 16th player onto the pitch. He MUST go absolutely hog wild and try new things. Or it's failure failure failure.

I'll be honest, I wanted him sacked after his first game in charge. Keeps everyone on their toes that we mean business.
Actually they should publicly execute a player after every single game...shows the rest of the lads that they could be next if they don't buck up their ideas.

ionadnapokot

aloooof wrote: »

It's a Sunday game so I'd say it could be that?

Probably!
But remember the Tues teams last 6N when everything was going to be awesome?

AdamD

Former Former Former wrote: »

That's cos they're all sh1t


No, of course they're not, but let's be honest. If Joey Carbery doesn't come back, and at a higher level than pre-injury, then we're relying on an uncapped guy to come through in the next two years and be the man. Harry Byrne is the only such prospect IMO but a long way to go.

The IRFU are no mugs when it comes to contracts. They know exactly what age Sexton is and how many miles he has on the clock.

Instead we'll be relying on somebody with minimal experience to come in the year of a world cup?

They need to move on from Sexton at some point even if it means a short term dip. Leaving it close to the world cup would be criminal

UAEguy2020

Sanjuro wrote: »

Look, if Farrell doesn't drop the entire squad from the Schmidt era, bring in 40 brand new young players, and completely throw out the playbook from the last few years, he cant be seen as anything but an abject failure. He must look for a new way to play. Play 15 forwards. Have the opposition fly half mugged on the way into the stadium. Maybe try and sneak a 16th player onto the pitch. He MUST go absolutely hog wild and try new things. Or it's failure failure failure.

If Schmidt was in charge what would have gone differently people must ask, all I know is after the RWC 2015 we lost to a worse French team away (one of the most gutless Irish performances I’ve ever seen) and probably a worse English team away so idea that things would be much better with someone else at the helm when we are in a period of transition is deluded. Like most things last year a narrative has been created before a ball is kicked and the narrative this time around was some fans want Farrell gone and want it no matter how out of touch with reality these people are. With the exception of Scotland in the first match we won all the games we were expected to win with abit to spare and lost away to more settled teams by no more than 12 points while knowing we have so much to improve on, hardly a disaster for a first season.

The first 2 games of the 6N this year are crucial, if he wins them both I think it will shut up the doubters for awhile atleast.

aloooof

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Probably!
But remember the Tues teams last 6N when everything was going to be awesome?

Fair point ya, I'd forgotten that.

Buer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

This is the third consecutive year he has come into the 6N off the back of an injury.

And he went on to start 10 games from 10 in those two tournaments....

Clegg

It's a shame that Harry Byrne had to pull out of his first Champions Cup start a few months ago. Would've been his biggest test to date and one which I've no doubt he would have passed.

He's currently far too good for regular Pro 12 matches, but we've no idea what he's like in the higher intensity games.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

It's a shame that Harry Byrne had to pull out of his first Champions Cup start a few months ago. Would've been his biggest test to date and one which I've no doubt he would have passed.

He's currently far too good for regular Pro 12 matches, but we've no idea what he's like in the higher intensity games.

Last weekend was Harry Byrne's best game for Leinster. He looked very composed and the less flashy elements of his game were excellent. His restarts were world class and his line kicking was very solid. His decision making was very tidy too without ever forcing anything or playing unnecessary risks.

But he looked far more raw in his showings earlier in the season. He showed flashes of quality with some fairly questionale decision making at times where he was forcing things. He's obviously worked during his break and appears a more rounded player right now.

I think it's extremely premature to say that the 21 year old outhalf with 9 starts to his name is far too good for regular league games. That's exactly what he should be getting now and using every single minute to develop and build his confidence. Ideally, he gets a start in Belfast this season with little enough on the line and faces a tougher level of opposition.

If he comes through all of those tests, I'd like to see him brought on the summer tour (if it proceeds which is unlikely). But I don't think he's going to leaping into big games for Leinster any time soon. He'll be drip fed in gradually in the same way his brother was, I reckon.

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

And he went on to start 10 games from 10 in those two tournaments....

Yes! - I think you do know what im saying on his injuries?
The impact it has had on his form in 2019, 20 & 21.

The hamstring, groin & calf ("lower leg") injures have been a constant throughout that period.

And before.
Remember the 2016 rehab in Santry?
He had to come off v NZ in Chicago with hamstring injury after 58mins
Declared fit for the game in Lansdowne. Came off again after 17mins
Returned against Benetton in Jan 2017 6N - 55mins
Then v Montpellier - 53mins
Came off injured v Castres - 21 mins

Then withdrew form the opening match v Scotland 2017 6N.

To quote Joe Schmidt at the time
“I think he has played about 82 minutes for the national team in the last eight Test matches so for us it is a real frustration.”

Not too sure what point you are making to me when you know your history.
& id know you know your history!

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

He's currently far too good for regular Pro 12 matches

Wow

dub_skav

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Probably!
But remember the Tues teams last 6N when everything was going to be awesome?

And look what's happened since.

Late announcements - no pandemic
Early announcements - global pandemic

I know which I prefer.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Wow

Really, he's far too good for rugby union in general.

They should be devising some new kind of sport, inspired by his brilliance, that shows off his skills in the most appropriate showcase possible.

TRC10

The level of sarcasm in here lately is too much

Yeah_Right

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I find I so hard that folks are so steadfast in their beliefs. But it's everyone for themselves. My opinion is that Farrell hasn't a clue and has developed Ireland into nothingness, which his predecessor already did. That said Farrell is even more conservative than Schmidt.

I listened to Eddie Jones this week and he was bang on. He said it how it was.

I'm pretty certain I'm not going to get an answer to these questions but I'm going to keep asking them :
Who do you think should be coaching now and who do you think should have been coaching instead of JS? And why?

Clegg

Ulster fans in particular have a problem with hyping up young players.

Martin Luther has much to answer for.

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

Ulster fans in particular have a problem with hyping up young players.

Martin Luther has much to answer for.

I'm sorry, but "[Harry Byrne is ] currently far too good for regular Pro 12 matches" is objectively funny in its lack of self awareness. You can argue about how crushingly tedious - and inaccurate - the hype trains surrounding various young players turn out to be, and I will put up my hand about coming down heavy-handed.

But there's not a court in the land - or any other - would convict me for that one.

mfceiling

Doris and Roux out of the Wales game according to the BBC.

Clegg

Harry Byrne in to replace Doris

mfceiling

Clegg wrote: »

Ulster fans in particular have a problem with hyping up young players.

Martin Luther has much to answer for.

Jesus not on here Clegg. We've produced some great backs over the last few years but you'd be hard pushed to find any Ulster fans hyping a player with only a few starts to the level of "he's too good for the league"!!

aloooof

You could have a 'hyperbole of the day' competition on here at the moment. And it'd be close.

Clegg

I think the league is generally of a poor quality anyway. It's not hard for a decent player to look a cut above most. And I think Byrne does look that already.

The big issue is he's untested against anything more than ok-ish opposition. It was the same story with Doris who has, happily, now made the step up to become a high level test player. I suppose it's more difficult for a fly half as they have the responsibility of managing the entire attacking side of the team.

I genuinely think Harry Byrne has hit the ceiling of what can be done in the league however. Needs to be playing against a far higher level of opposition to improve his game now.

irelandrover

aloooof wrote: »

You could have a 'hyperbole of the day' competition on here at the moment. And it'd be close.

It wouldn't be close at all. Claiming Harry Bryne is too good for the pro 14 would easily win.

aloooof

irelandrover wrote: »

It wouldn't be close at all. Claiming Harry Bryne is too good for the pro 14 would easily win.

It's only 11am tho.