Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390776#Comment_119390776

It wasn’t just Leinster supporters. The Moloney thing was just a complete recency bias thing. He was great against Toulouse and had a good season up to that. If he can string performances like the Toulouse one together then he could be in the conversation, but one game isn’t what any player should be judged on. We all know that isn’t how it goes though.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390367#Comment_119390367

I never did, he is an excellent servant to Leinster and is a player who always shows up at URC level but he was never a player I would of picked to tour ahead of Ahearn/McCarthy etc….

Unfortunately for him he is just the level below the top players, he is URC and group stage level player but just struggles above that

But one player I would hate to see leave Leinster as he holds the place together when the internationals are gone

Dubinusa

Molony was great this season. He is probably close enough to the wider squad.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388005#Comment_119388005

It wasnt game defining in terms of the points but it was in terms of the momentum, not only that period but even the the period just after halftime we continued to do stupid brain dead stuff ( I thought the pen just at the start of the 2nd half was incredibly daft). It was similar to nZL the only difference being is no team is going to brutally punish you to the extent NZL will, the big difference was when France had the penalty advantage they still played to their game plan and didn't try to test our defence in the backfield like for example NZL did. Was the 2nd quarter as bad in the France game as the NZL game? No, was it similar? Yes.

Ofcourse they will.

It was overboard, I did think there were issues and some of which were right but for the most part I overreacted, I made a mistake I accept that.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391186#Comment_119391186

It was overboard, I did think there were issues and some of which were right but for the most part I overreacted, I made a mistake I accept that.

I’ve been critical, but credit where it’s due Shehal, for owning this.

TRC10

https://youtu.be/8J9aikgWKb0

This popped in on my recommended today. This is from the Wales game back in February 2021. Looking back, you can see that we were clearly trying to play with the same 1-3-2-2 attacking shape we're playing with now, but it's funny just how bad we were at it back then. Forwards all over the place, not in position, men missing from 3-man pods, not attacking the gain line at all, shovelling the ball on 10 yards behind the gain line, poor running lines, etc. Our attack really was a mess. But it's fascinating to see how far we've come since then.

I've heard people theorise that there was a radical change in thinking from the coaches mid way through 2021, but I'm not so sure that's the case. I suspect we were trying to play the current way all along under Farrell, but the Joe Schmidt methods were so deeply ingrained in so many of the players, it took so long to almost de-programme them, and then implement the new coach's ideas, as well as more new players coming in who didn't play under Schmidt (Doris, Kelleher, Sheehan, JGP, Lowe, Hansen, Keenan). Plus guys like Porter, Beirne, Conan and Conway, who were only fringe players under Joe, but who became starters under Farrell. think Leinster switching to a pretty much identical game plan at the start of last season, and Ireland picking an almost fully Leinster team, played a big role in our improvement in 21/22 as well.

Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392411#Comment_119392411

Watching the above, faster ruck ball with JGP is asbolutely key as well. While you can see that they were pretty muck at execution once the ball was out anyhow, it was coupled by very set defenses every time because we were so slow (as illustrated by the fact that the video editor had to trim snippets at the rucks).

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392411#Comment_119392411

There's a couple of really good rugby analysts on twitter (EK Rugby or something is one of them) who go through some of the plays Ireland make in minute detail and highlight all the moving parts. My main takeaways from them are:

1. I know **** all about rugby
2. The amount of time Ireland must have spent on the training field to get this right has to be astronomical, because in the plays that come off every single player from 1-15 seems to know their role for that phase, the next phase and the phase after that. AND not only that but everyone knows where everyone else is going to be as well, and Sexton seems to have some galaxy brain view of the pitch where he knows where everyone is and where everyone is going to be

So I'm really not surprised if we were trying and largely failing at it 12-18 months ago. I think Sexton had a comment at the time that they felt they were making real progress and to watch this space, it was hard to see it on the pitch at the time but another season on and it is very evident.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2022/0729/1312937-andy-farrell-signs-new-ireland-deal-taking-him-to-2025/

Really feel that this is another Eddie O'Sullivan 2007 RWC moment here. Why not wait until after the RWC next year to tie down AF and if results are bad, then get Leo Cullen for 6N in 2024. Once again the IRFU making another haymes of contract extensions for head coaches prematurely.

roverjoyce

Fool me once, fool me twice etc etc.

Do the IRFU learn from past experiences or are they only looking after there own jobs

sydthebeat

Excellent. Great signing

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403224#Comment_119403224

What are you on about looking after their own jobs? What does that mean?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403224#Comment_119403224

It makes absolute sense to tie him down, and is likely not disconnected to the uncertainty around Eddie Jones' future and the rumblings in the press around the RFU trying to potentially poach AF down the road.

The team are in a great place at the moment, playing good rugby and seem like a happy squad who are delivering results. Why wouldn't you want to secure the head coach who is delivering that for longer?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403219#Comment_119403219

We had to tie him down. Say we didn't, we're then going into a RWC with massive uncertainty over the coach's future, which isn't a good thing. Or worse, say he accepted an offer from England to take over after the RWC. We then have a scenario where our head coach is England's head coach in waiting going into the RWC. I couldn't see that ending well. This extension eliminates that possibility.

A two year deal gives us more scope to asses his position after the RWC, whereas a four year deal wouldn't.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403219#Comment_119403219

Smart signing now. Takes the discussion away for the next 12 months and let's the management team get on with the job in hand..

Cuts out all talk of potentially going to England etc.

If the world cup goes south there is probably a 6 month break clause included Like most contracts the irfu seem to hand out.

RichieRich_89

Farrell deserves some job security after what he's brought to Irish rugby. He has them playing effective, winning rugby that's also brilliant to watch. What's not to like?

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403290#Comment_119403290

One day soon, RFU will wake up and figure out their next best option @ HC has been under their noses all along, Shaun Edwards.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403219#Comment_119403219

I think this is the right decision.

The last thing you want is Farrell announcing before the WC that he has signed to be England Head coach and all the talk and distraction that comes with that.

This way he's locked in beyond the competition and no one is distracted by who's going where.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403219#Comment_119403219

Eddie O'Sullivan didn't win a test series in New Zealand and wasn't the outstanding candidate for the England job.

And iirc, Eddie O'Sullivan was gone just months after RWC 2007. The same will happen Farrell if the wheels come off.

stephen_n

The absolute obsession some people have about World Cups and usually one game every 4 years, being the only measure of success is baffling to be honest.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403219#Comment_119403219

You leave the coach without a contract extension til the actual world cup and you won't have to worry about how it goes because he will absolutely have another job lined up for afterwards. Its this or getting rid of him - its an easy decision.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403460#Comment_119403460

While this is true, wouldn't our status and profile be raised if we won the feckin world cup? On the biggest stage!

Great signing. Is proven, hugely regarded by the playing squad across provinces, has shown he can innovate and bring the team with him, and as we saw in NZ, he can fix things on the fly.

Interested Observer

We're playing the best rugby we have in years, this was absolutely a good decision imo and very pleased to see he's staying on.

Re. England, had heard it mentioned in the media somewhere that he probably wouldn't take that job until Owen retired or left the international scene.

Dubinusa

Farrell has been very good! His team is progressing and look like they can add to the structure. Good appointment.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403460#Comment_119403460

It is but when we continuously have underperformed/ not performed at all at world cup then of course there will be an obsession with the world cup.. it shouldn't and can't be the only measure of success but we've now done wverything bar properly do we'll in the biggest tournament we can play in. .

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390854#Comment_119390854

Moony is one of those players that will sneak into a squad sometime and pick up 3-5 caps. A lot of locks seem to peak in their 30s. He still has some time.

He will never be an international mainstay.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403716#Comment_119403716

Of course it would.

However if we had a good AI series, won a Grand Slam and then got narrowly beaten by NZ or France in a quarter final. Would that be reason to fire Farrell?

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403848#Comment_119403848

Have we really? Mostly we have performed to our level. With a few notable misfires in 2007 and 2019. In 2015 we lost 5 key players, including arguably our 3 best players. If you took Carter, Read and McCaw out of the NZ team, they would have been far less formidable. In 2011 we weren’t really better than a quarter final in our expectations going out there. Prior to 2003 we were just making up the numbers really.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119404850#Comment_119404850

2011 we put in a pitiful display and were beaten comprehensively by a Welsh team that was not better than us on paper. In 2015, even with injuries, the team we fielded was not 23 points worse than Argentina, who took us to the cleaners and were well beaten in the semis. We should have, at the very least, given them a game. A year earlier we took a weakened team to Argentina and won 2-0. How anyone can argue that a 23 point defeat wasn't a massive failure is baffling to me.

The World Cup is the pinnacle of international rugby. It's what everyone builds towards and where everyone is at their best. And in our last 4, we have massively underperformed, those are the facts. The odd 6N win can only paper over the cracks for so long. I don't know how many capitulations Irish Rugby can afford on the biggest stage before the general interest takes a hit. We absolutely need to perform in France next year.

You can see in the reaction to our series win this summer we've gotten ourselves a reputation. Other countries don't really take us seriously even though we've just achieved something incredible. The attitude towards us is, "Yeah they're good now, but we all know they'll flop when it matters most". We need to buck that trend.