Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Buer

CMcsporty wrote: »

Jackman says Connors starts though

That's the end of Connors' test career.

Dubinusa

Pretty poor back row imo. Not much balance to it. I mustn't see what the coaches see with Connors!

CMcsporty

Dubinusa wrote: »

Pretty poor back row imo. Not much balance to it. I mustn't see what the coaches see with Connors!

Think Dan Lydiate. But better!

Pudsy33

The rumoured team I've seen has POM, VDF, and CJ. I'd be shocked if that's not the call.

The Inbetween is mine

Pudsy33 wrote: »

The rumoured team I've seen has POM, VDF, and CJ. I'd be shocked if that's not the call.

I think that's the right call tbf... picking players in their best positions.

Drico on off the ball saying Doris is a huge loss and was Ireland's best player in the Autumn, don't know if he was our best player but was certainly in the discussion.

Question over our ball carrying now in the pack to be honest, if the backrow is POM, Stander and Connors we'll need to pick up slack elsewhere in the forwards.

the baby bull elephant

Dubinusa wrote: »

Pretty poor back row imo. Not much balance to it. I mustn't see what the coaches see with Connors!

Tackling, linespeed and hands would be the obvious ones. Unfortunately lacking as a carrier and turnover threat.

ionadnapokot

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Tackling, linespeed and hands would be the obvious ones. Unfortunately lacking as a carrier and turnover threat.

He has also shown some nice offloading

Sangre

CMcsporty wrote: »

Think Dan Lydiate. But better!

Better than Lions tourist and 2012 6N Player of Tournament Dan Lydiate?

I think you are confusing Connors for Harry Byrne.

CMcsporty

Ha!
Yes better than the 2012 Tackler of the tournament!

Clegg

Murray Kinsella says VDF, Beirne and Lowe are set to start. I'm not really enthused by a POM, VDF, Stander backrow as they've failed to fire as a unit in recent matches together. Beirne partnering Ryan is welcome. Surprised about the inclusion of Lowe. Thought he wasn't fit.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1357442158064721921?s=09

TRC10

A back row of Pete, VDF and CJ would be pretty worrying. All good players in their own right. Theres a real lack of ball carrying ability with Doris out and Furlong not in contention to start yet. I'd think we'd have benefited hugely from having Henderson (with Beirne at 6) or Ruddock in there, just to get us over the gainline. With that back row theres a massive responsibility on Stander to get us go-forward ball.

briandebum

I hope Beirne has a big game, his form's been exceptional at Munster this year. Would really be great if he can carry it through to international level.

UAEguy2020

Personally would prefer Will Connors as he’s the most expansive 7 we have but I can live with that back row.

If Iain Henderson comes on and makes good impact though and Doris isn’t fit for France I would seriously consider moving Beirne to 6 and put Henderson in the second row with Ryan for France.

My main gripe is the back three, would prefer Keenan, Larmour, Lowe/Earls

AbusesToilets

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

I think that's the right call tbf... picking players in their best positions.

Not picking the best players in those positions, however

thomond2006

GT's shout:

IRELAND (possible) v WALES:
Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray;
Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

ElisaAtWar

thomond2006 wrote: »

GT's shout:

IRELAND (possible) v WALES:
Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray;
Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

It is what it is as a team. It's a good enough team to beat Wales using the bog standard methodology that is Ireland. And that sums it up. There is no point in talking about one player over another player when the game plan is just trying to physically defeat the other team. The mentioned team should hopefully suffice

thomond2006

Is that a broken record I hear?

Dave_The_Sheep

Sometimes, it's better to not hear a thing.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

GT's shout:

IRELAND (possible) v WALES:
Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray;
Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

That smells about right. Larmour probably shot his chances at a start in the Munster game and Murray likely solidified his position by taking advantage of Larmour's inaccuracy.

Lowe if even remotely fit is going to start. Furlong has work to do to get ahead of Porter albeit, they are interestingly different players. Porter is an absolute brute of a man, incredibly physical - but Furlong has impressive ball playing skills and they both offer something different but equally international in quality.

Kelleher isn't necessarily first choice at Leinster at the moment so his relegation for Ireland isn't surprising, but it confirms concerns that we've a real issue at hooker and no signs of it being rectified. Bit disappointed to see Aki out of the frame if this is the team, he would make up for some of the go forward I feel we are lacking up front. At the same time, Henshaw is in exceptional form and deserves the start.

This is the team I expect to be named, it makes too much sense for it not to be the team as much as I'm sure some will be disappointed.

There is nothing I've seen from the Welsh national team or regions the last 12 months that suggest to me that this team can't win.

ElisaAtWar

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is that a broken record I hear?

Yes it is. A broken record that keeps replaying the same tune. And thomond2006 it is hard to see that tune playing so strongly for so long. It has nothing to do with players, it has to do with a belief that I fundamentally disagree with

ElisaAtWar

Clearly Keenan out of his comfort zone. But I had said in the past that the back 3 are irrelevant anyway in how Ireland play. They are defensive players and nothing else. And then you have Murray and Sexton and it's just crash ball. And then you have Healy. And a hooker who can't hit a lineout. And Stander who is a brain dead muscle man. What a fantastic team

Lost Ormond

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

It is what it is as a team. It's a good enough team to beat Wales using the bog standard methodology that is Ireland. And that sums it up. There is no point in talking about one player over another player when the game plan is just trying to physically defeat the other team. The mentioned team should hopefully suffice

Have you ever actually shown any indepth thoughts on the team?
Bog standard methodology means nothing.

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Clearly Keenan out of his comfort zone. But I had said in the past that the back 3 are irrelevant anyway in how Ireland play. They are defensive players and nothing else. And then you have Murray and Sexton and it's just crash ball. And then you have Healy. And a hooker who can't hit a lineout. And Stander who is a brain dead muscle man. What a fantastic team

More of the same nonsense with nothing to actually back up what you're saying.
Look where the tries came from in the November games and you will see relevance of back 3.
Murray and Sexton are not simply playing crash ball. Care to show with clips/stats that they are.

Leinstertomas

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Clearly Keenan out of his comfort zone. But I had said in the past that the back 3 are irrelevant anyway in how Ireland play. They are defensive players and nothing else. And then you have Murray and Sexton and it's just crash ball. And then you have Healy. And a hooker who can't hit a lineout. And Stander who is a brain dead muscle man. What a fantastic team

Can you elaborate on why you think Keenan is out of his comfort zone? He was one of our best players across autumn.
Who would you have as fullback instead?

TRC10

Deleted User wrote: »

There is nothing I've seen from the Welsh national team or regions the last 12 months that suggest to me that this team can't win.

That just sums up Wales though doesn't it. And is why I think they will win.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

GT's shout:

IRELAND (possible) v WALES:
Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton (capt), Conor Murray;
Cian Healy, Rob Herring, Andrew Porter, Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan, Peter O’Mahony, Josh van der Flier, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rónan Kelleher, Dave Kilcoyne, Tadhg Furlong, Iain Henderson, Will Connors, Jamison Gibson-Park, Billy Burns, Jordan Larmour.

.ak

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Clearly Keenan out of his comfort zone. But I had said in the past that the back 3 are irrelevant anyway in how Ireland play. They are defensive players and nothing else. And then you have Murray and Sexton and it's just crash ball. And then you have Healy. And a hooker who can't hit a lineout. And Stander who is a brain dead muscle man. What a fantastic team

We play safe rugby and have been since 2018, don’t think anyone can really disagree with you there. Murray Kinsella did some good analysis in how we operate in the 22 on set pieces.

But, is that any different from the other big teams? Are England, New Zealand, and South Africa etc not just doing it also, but better? It’s very easy to look like a slick attacking aside after you’ve dominated the penalty and set piece areas of the game.

Out of interest, Murray and Sexton are probably our best footballing halfbacks in the profoessional era, do you honestly think it’s their abilities that are causing us to play crash rugby? And who would you have in their place? What do you mean by Keenan out of his comfort zone? And what about Healy? Out lineout seems to be misfiring no matter who wears the 2 jersey, but you reckon the 3 professionals we’ve selected just can’t hit it? Harsh on Standser but I do agree he’s slight one dimensional. I’d also consider Vunipola one dimensional but he’s a hell of a player, it’s rugby - physicality is part of the game, for every team.

UAEguy2020

TRC10 wrote: »

That just sums up Wales though doesn't it. And is why I think they will win.

Sums up Wales under Gatland you mean?

Under Gatland Wales were possibly the fittest side in the world and that usual bridged the gap left from the regions not performing, that same regiment is no longer there.

Dubinusa

Can't see how Lowe gets the nod with no games played for a couple of months. I'd go with Larmour and Earls on the wings. I think Keenan will be fine. He could surprise and play a stormer, thus rendering all other fb candidates as surplus to requirements.

TRC10

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Sums up Wales under Gatland you mean?

Under Gatland Wales were possibly the fittest side in the world and that usual bridged the gap left from the regions not performing, that same regiment is no longer there.

What I mean is that in all my years watching rugby, I've learned that the moment you write off Wales and don't give them a chance is the moment they deliver a massive performance. And that has me worried.

I think our level of confidence going into this game is completely unfounded after a very average year in 2020. It also worries me that everybody seems to be writing Wales off. I do believe this Wales team has a big performance in them and I've a strong feeling we'll see it on Sunday.