Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770407#Comment_119770407

Frawley and Crowley both have great potential. Hopefully one of them or both get a decent run and show some consistency. Not panic stations just yet but we still have no one near the required level if Sexton is out come qf stage.

The scrum is our other main worry. Porter is clearly out in front at 1 but against France and SA I'm not sure his scrummaging will hold up(Furlongs either) . He's good but the way he binds with a low elbow will cost him penalties(even when he's not at fault).

I can't remember a better Irish front row but SA and France just have monsters come scrum time.

However we have the skill set across the team to keep our error count low to keep the amount of scrums low.

Its would have been crazy to say it in the past but I really hope we end up with NZ in the qf.

I also really hope Andy Farrell doesn't settle on a team. This was Joe's downfall, had his team who had previous success and overlooked players in form. Farrell needs to be ruthless and keep the team evolving even when we're on top

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770986#Comment_119770986

With regards to the last point, I think that was the week that Connacht were on their 2 week tour of SA and all the EI players were available, and in the match squad for their game that weekend.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771170#Comment_119771170

Ya, good shout, I'd forgotten that, presumably because they were already in SA. The larger point being tho, it was a game Frawley started that wasn't available to Crowley.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770986#Comment_119770986

That's fair enough. I forgot that the EI guys didn't play the 2nd week of the season, that's my bad. But Healy still started ahead of Crowley for the Cardiff game. Now, maybe the fact that Crowley was going to miss the next few games was a factor there. But that didn't stop Leinster starting Frawley v Bennetton. So maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

Frawley, like all the guys who toured NZ in the summer, wasn't available to start the first game of the season v Zebre. So Frawley and Crowley have essentially been available for the same number of games this season, with Frawley starting one game at 10 to Crowley's none. Now you could say Crowley may have started more if it weren't for the EI tour, but you could say the same thing about Frawley had he not hurt his shoulder v Bennetton.

So based on this season, I don't think there's sufficient evidence to claim that one is higher up the pecking order at their respective province. But of course that could change over the coming weeks, and I suspect it will at Munster. And I actually think Crowley could seriously push Carbery.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771416#Comment_119771416

Frawley got the start vs Bennetton off the back of 27 mins off the bench in the previous game, tho. Crowley hasn't been available for Munster for consecutive games yet this season even off the bench, so there's a slight difference there too (however small a difference that might make to continuity; Crowley was to miss 3 games, Frawley only 2).

We'll see over the coming weeks, but at the moment, I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest Crowley is, or indeed isn't, definitively 3rd choice, so I'd agree entirely with this:

I don't think there's sufficient evidence to claim that one is higher up the pecking order at their respective province.

ulsteru20s

The only real evidence i have is that crowley looks way way better than Healy in this system, night and day better. Healy suited how they played last year way more.

On the other hand, Frawley hasn’t really leapt off the screen for leinster and Byrne has ran this system for years. Its a much harder ask for frawley to overtake Byrne. Maybe Byrne being pretty meh against Connacht so maybe that will give Frawley an opportunity.

I agree that you may as well just wait and see.

One wrinkle might be Munster deciding to play Crowley at 15. He looked really good there and Carberry really shone with Crowley on the field as a second playmaker.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119770641#Comment_119770641

It's because I was complementary towards the Blackrock SCT side that won the competition.

Hasn't gotten that out of his head since.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771605#Comment_119771605

Maybe Byrne being pretty meh against Connacht so maybe that will give Frawley an opportunity.

Frawley was on the bench in that game when Leinster could’ve done with a change and only brought him in with 9 mins to go tho.

It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out anyways.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771698#Comment_119771698

You sir are worse than hitler.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771815#Comment_119771815

...

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771800#Comment_119771800

I honestly couldn’t believe that. Byrne really wasn’t good.

Interested Observer

Listening to the42 podcast that went out yesterday, one of their pundits (not sure his name, sounds like a Nordie) seems to be pining back for the days of Murray starting for Ireland. Very strange.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773852#Comment_119773852

Murray has been pretty bad for munster this year, imo. Maybe he isnt watching the munster games.

Wegians89

Wouldn't be surprised to see the management team give blade every opportunity to over take Murray in the next year. The fact blade was picked over Doak for the A squad shows they’re keen to see him up close again. He’s probably the closest thing to JGP style wise

Must love hardship

I really hope Hansen doesn't start for ireland v South africa..

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771698#Comment_119771698

What exactly did you contribute to the Blackrock side Clegg?

Unless you meant complimentary? :)

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119776681#Comment_119776681

Why

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119778704#Comment_119778704

Your better off not asking

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119778704#Comment_119778704

He was terrible in the lead up to the first try conceded by connacht.. a poor kick followed up by a lazy chase and flapped at a tackle. Looked uninterested and lethargic..

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779841#Comment_119779841

yep, was about to say similar.. it was a very odd start, but he brightened up eventually...

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119779881#Comment_119779881

Yep I agree he played better as the game went on but started very poorly..

With the rain coming sideways not the nicest evening out West for a lad who grew up in the beaches of Oz..

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119780678#Comment_119780678

I thought he was poor v leinster, must have missed 4 or 5 tackles.

Was OK v Munster and was poor v the stormers.. didnt see his other games.

TRC10

Healy needs to be sent to the glue factory. It's blindingly obvious. The guy get's knocked back in nearly every collision and his skills (which were never great) are atrocious. I fear to think what he'll be like in a years time. And if we're still relying on him at that stage, we may as well not even enter the World Cup, because we're f*cked.

He's our best ever loosehead and an Irish rugby legend, but he's done. Time to move on.

Plenty of very good young looseheads in the country. Time to give them a chance. But after our latest failure to move him on, I fear it's too late and there's too many eggs in the Healy basket at this stage.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119781780#Comment_119781780

Loughman? I feel loosehead depth is the worst for any position.

Clegg

Healy will be fine as he always is in green. No need to be so pessimistic.

Looking forward to seeing Frawley play for Ireland in the upcoming series. He was excellent tonight at 15. Used as an extra distributor in the back line and got the ball into the wide channels where we made a lot of metres.

He took a knock to the shoulder hence the substitution. Hopefully he's ok.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119781780#Comment_119781780

To be fair “relying on him” is a bit strong. He played 27 mins in the 3 Tests in NZ for example.

We’re absolutely relying on Porter tho. I don’t think our depth at LH is great. I think the drop from Porter is fairly significant.

Probably more so than from Furlong to Bealham? In any case they’re both super important to us.

Dubinusa

I wouldn't be too concerned with Bealham. He's playing very well. I think getting O'Toole minutes is key this autumn. The lad is currently in pole position as a possible future Irelanf starter. I'd give him one start this autumn. Cian Healy is spent! I hope Loughman gets capped. Getting minutes will improve his game. He's a good carrier and a good scrummager. He's got serious power. Healy makes no ground and gets stopped dead more times than not.

If Beirne isn't ready for SA, I would play Treadwell. It's certainly a drop off from Henderson and Beirne but, he's next up. McCarthy and Ahearn are not too far away. I would expect one of them to play v Fiji and the other to play v Oz.

Missing Henderson is a loss though. He's probably the most powerful 2nd row we have. I can't wait to see the 1st fixture.

Wegians89

Will be interesting to see how the injury’s and illness Over the weekend effect the squad. Believe they were due to meet up tomorrow, wonder if there will be additions

FACECUTTR

I'd like to see N. Murray get a bit of time in camp if Beirne is out. He has been excellent for the past few seasons and is still very young.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119783632#Comment_119783632

He was fantastic against leinster i thought.