Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

UAEguy2020

sydthebeat wrote: »

id tend to agree with you.... the closest id call it is a draw..
but player to player currently id have Williams ahead of murray (much more of a ball in hand threat and his tempo is certainly higher than murrays) and Biggar slightly ahead of sexton.

Murray in 2019 I may have agreed but with Murray’s comeback of form I think he’s back in front. I would agree on Bigger being ahead of Sexton at the moment though.

Overall I think Murray is the only halfback who I would back to be world class at the weekend which is why I would edge towards to Irish duo and also down to experience at this level, Tomos has only recently come on the scene (relatively speaking, he’s been around awhile but this wouldn’t have been a discussion a year and a half ago) and doesn’t really have a great relationship with Bigger, works much better outside Anscombe. But that combined with what I said earlier would push the Irish duo ahead.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

Tomos Williams' inability to tackle cost Wales a place in the World Cup Final

the one where De Allande brushed Biggar off?

revisionist to put the blame for that try on williams and not biggar

AbusesToilets

That's a pretty meh backrow, how many times can we see the same group underperform?

Hope they get the wingers involved more frequently.

sydthebeat

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Murray in 2019 I may have agreed but with Murray’s comeback of form I think he’s back in front. I would agree on Bigger being ahead of Sexton at the moment though.

Overall I think Murray is the only halfback who I would back to be world class at the weekend which is why I would edge towards to Irish duo and also down to experience at this level, Tomos has only recently come on the scene (relatively speaking, he’s been around awhile but this wouldn’t have been a discussion a year and a half ago) and doesn’t really have a great relationship with Bigger, works much better outside Anscombe. But that combined with what I said earlier would push the Irish duo ahead.

obvously its all subjective... and Murray certainly has the higher ceiling... but he hasnt hit that ceiling in over 2 years, his recent form notwithstanding.

while not a medal ceremony, but BOD tipped Williams as the lions starter v the boks

im REALLY hoping Murray and Sexton are back to something close to their best for this competition, and i think that forward pack can provide a good platform at least against Wales.

however if france, and moreso England, do the same to us as they did last year, then we will have learnt nothing and a lot of blame for that will lie at the feet of our playmakers.

UAEguy2020

sydthebeat wrote: »

obvously its all subjective... and Murray certainly has the higher ceiling... but he hasnt hit that ceiling in over 2 years, his recent form notwithstanding.

while not a medal ceremony, but BOD tipped Williams as the lions starter v the boks

im REALLY hoping Murray and Sexton are back to something close to their best for this competition, and i think that forward pack can provide a good platform at least against Wales.

however if france, and moreso England, do the same to us as they did last year, then we will have learnt nothing and a lot of blame for that will lie at the feet of our playmakers.

Yeah I would have agreed until recently when Murray appears to have found a lot of his form from pre 2019.

It’s not necessarily the players individually it’s them as a pair, the reality is if you are going for the Welshmen it’s splitting hairs but you add in the Irish duo are one of the most established 9/10 combos in world rugby whereas Bigger and Williams haven’t really played that much together so in that case I would still be picking the Irish duo, I’m a big fan of Williams I must say but I’m not that big a fan of Bigger.

I don’t see how the pack was the problem v France, we beat them at the break down and got more go forward ball than they did and bar afew scrums (which can happen v France) I don’t see how the pack was the problem in that match, it wasn’t the reason we lost. England I agree though ofcourse.

awec

Who wants to do the match thread?

leakyboots

Burns ahead of Ross (and Harry!) Byrne.
Right call for me. Are we doing a sweepstake for what minute he comes on in?

I'd be wrapping Sexton up in cotton wool once (if) the game looks out of sight

sydthebeat

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Yeah I would have agreed until recently when Murray appears to have found a lot of his form from pre 2019.

It’s not necessarily the players individually it’s them as a pair, the reality is if you are going for the Welshmen it’s splitting hairs but you add in the Irish duo are one of the most established 9/10 combos in world rugby whereas Bigger and Williams haven’t really played that much together so in that case I would still be picking the Irish duo, I’m a big fan of Williams I must say but I’m not that big a fan of Bigger.

I don’t see how the pack was the problem v France, we beat them at the break down and got more go forward ball than they did and bar afew scrums (which can happen v France) I don’t see how the pack was the problem in that match, it wasn’t the reason we lost. England I agree though ofcourse.

it wasnt the pack against France, it was the backs.. i wasnt saying the issues were the same in both games, but im saying its up to the playmakers to think their way out of the problem on the pitch.
That French backline are deadly from broken ball so decisions to keep dropping bombs onto them for them to attack a disjointed defence is asking for trouble and the french got great reward last year. Id like to see a lot more varity in our kicking this year... as a change from box kicks on half way or sexton garryowens. That welsh back line is perfect to practise against... i think we can great profit from turning north around and finding grass between him and 1/2p

The Inbetween is mine

leakyboots wrote: »

Burns ahead of Ross (and Harry!) Byrne.
Right call for me. Are we doing a sweepstake for what minute he comes on in?

I'd be wrapping Sexton up in cotton wool once (if) the game looks out of sight

I think Wales will target Sexton with hard, and late hits..
I would genuinely be surprised if he gets past halftime... really going to need POM & Stander to protect him as much as possible

UAEguy2020

sydthebeat wrote: »

it wasnt the pack against France, it was the backs.. i wasnt saying the issues were the same in both games, but im saying its up to the playmakers to think their way out of the problem on the pitch.
That French backline are deadly from broken ball so decisions to keep dropping bombs onto them for them to attack a disjointed defence is asking for trouble and the french got great reward last year. Id like to see a lot more varity in our kicking this year... as a change from box kicks on half way or sexton garryowens. That welsh back line is perfect to practise against... i think we can great profit from turning north around and finding grass between him and 1/2p

It’s okay to kicks bombs against the French if it’s deep their half, kicking bombs on the halfway line is asking for trouble. I think Ringrose back is massive as he will be key in the evolvement of our attack.

awec

awec wrote: »

I'll do the match thread?

Cheers awec - good intro and a decent table please, it is the six nations after all.

Dubinusa

This could be a banana skin for us. A loss and the plot is lost. Our backrow looks weak. Wales could dominate in this area. I expect to win. But it won't be one sided.

Paul Smeenus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cheers awec - good intro and a decent table please, it is the six nations after all.

Has Awec not bothered his hoop yet?

Ffs.

KBurke85

awec wrote: »

Who wants to do the match thread?

Ah there's enough moaning and complaining going on without adding a second thread for the same arguments :D

OneLungDavy

I think if the Welsh crowd was there I'd have a Wales win, I still think they might nick it.

ElisaAtWar

.ak wrote: »

We play safe rugby and have been since 2018, don’t think anyone can really disagree with you there. Murray Kinsella did some good analysis in how we operate in the 22 on set pieces.

But, is that any different from the other big teams? Are England, New Zealand, and South Africa etc not just doing it also, but better? It’s very easy to look like a slick attacking aside after you’ve dominated the penalty and set piece areas of the game.

Out of interest, Murray and Sexton are probably our best footballing halfbacks in the profoessional era, do you honestly think it’s their abilities that are causing us to play crash rugby? And who would you have in their place? What do you mean by Keenan out of his comfort zone? And what about Healy? Out lineout seems to be misfiring no matter who wears the 2 jersey, but you reckon the 3 professionals we’ve selected just can’t hit it? Harsh on Standser but I do agree he’s slight one dimensional. I’d also consider Vunipola one dimensional but he’s a hell of a player, it’s rugby - physicality is part of the game, for every team.

I listened to Eddie Jones on BT Sport last weekend. He was quizzed on why don't play Bristol style rugby. He smiled and just simply said that is not the international way of playing rugby. And he expanded by saying you have to play the put in front of you.

And so I agree with you .ak. International rugby is primarily a game of attrition. But there are some fundamentals that can co-exist in such a style of game. And the most important ones are line-speed and the ability to offload rather than bulldozing the ball forward.

And that's my fundamental problem with Irish rugby. It's just very hard yards with ball held in close. And while that's good enough for a win in many cases, it is not good enough to beat the stronger teams. And it's why POM or Stander do not rate in my opinion

TomsOnTheRoof

For the love of Christ, Sunday can't come quickly enough.

bilston

6Ns preview show just starting on UTV/ITV

Lost Ormond

I know its traditional and top pros/front line internationals never will play for the clubs but its great seeing James Lowe listed as Clondalkin RFC on the team listing
https://www.facebook.com/ClondalkinRugbyClub/photos/a.657038154347788/4032387923479444

Like it would be fantastic if Tadhg Furlong was listed as New Ross, Josh Van Der Flier Wicklow etc.

Ian Hendersons listed as Academy, a junior club his dad was involved in a lot, captained etc, and where he started playing minis

Dickie10

i actually dont like the provincial set up, should be just clubs. anyway where is stockdale is he not even in subs?

Dickie10

its a very 50-50 game , hopefully we get on scoresheet a bit quicker than our last visit in 6 nations

stephen_n

It’s that time of year again.

Lost Ormond

Dickie10 wrote: »

i actually dont like the provincial set up, should be just clubs. anyway where is stockdale is he not even in subs?

Why do you not like provinces?
What clubs?
Stockdale injured

ElisaAtWar

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

For the love of Christ, Sunday can't come quickly enough.

It seems some people must be reminded

OneLungDavy

Stephen Ferris on Lydiate: “I think his best years are behind him and I wouldn’t have any bother saying that to his face, Running around diving at people’s feet will only get you so far.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40221323.html

Wales are going to win, aren't they!

awec

awec wrote: »

I'll do the match thread

.ak

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Stephen Ferris on Lydiate: “I think his best years are behind him and I wouldn’t have any bother saying that to his face, Running around diving at people’s feet will only get you so far.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40221323.html

Wales are going to win, aren't they!

Me-ow

Yeah_Right

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I listened to Eddie Jones on BT Sport last weekend. He was quizzed on why don't play Bristol style rugby. He smiled and just simply said that is not the international way of playing rugby. And he expanded by saying you have to play the put in front of you.

And so I agree with you .ak. International rugby is primarily a game of attrition. But there are some fundamentals that can co-exist in such a style of game. And the most important ones are line-speed and the ability to offload rather than bulldozing the ball forward.

And that's my fundamental problem with Irish rugby. It's just very hard yards with ball held in close. And while that's good enough for a win in many cases, it is not good enough to beat the stronger teams. And it's why POM or Stander do not rate in my opinion

Who do you think should be coaching ireland? Who would you have in the halves? The back three? The back row? At LH and hooker? Come on, put your money where your mouth is. Give us solutions rather than your usual BS.

aloooof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Who do you think should be coaching ireland? Who would you have in the halves? The back three? The back row? At LH and hooker? Come on, put your money where your mouth is. Give us solutions rather than your usual BS.

You should keep a count of how many times you don’t get an answer, YR. Double figures before the end of the week, I'd say.

Paul Smeenus

Fantastic article:

https://www.the42.ie/noel-mannion-5346840-Feb2021/