Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ionadnapokot · 18-11-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889910#Comment_119889910

He had elite pace and was an exceptional finisher.

I agree though he is done. At least for this RWC. Lowe, Hansen and JOB are ahead of him for the No.11 jersey.

Clegg · 18-11-2022 3:34pm

I think Stockdale had a chance of breaking back into the side. He started off the season very well making a lot of line breaks and coming off his wing to act as an additional receiver. But he picked up another injury at the worst time. Played poorly against New Zealand XV and hasn't had a look in since.

He's still in Dublin with the rest of the squad so they want to keep him involved. But Lowe has a lot of credit in the bank and Hansen is a nailed on first choice for the wing currently. JOB took his chance unlike Stockdale and his moved ahead currently.

I wouldn't rule Stockdale out entirely. He's young enough to recover from injury and rediscover his form. Also has incredible physicality to act as a crash runner and break the line.

18-11-2022 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889755#Comment_119889755

Yeah, fair enough on a handful of years, but you're nit picking really. Leinster have been the dominant force in Irish rugby over the last 13 years, that's indisputable.

Built out a league table from the following source over the period in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRFU_Interprovincial_Championship

You can extend this sample size back to the start of the 2000/01 season (but for some reason that page doesn't have the data for the 2002/03 season) and the gap between Leinster and second place is almost exactly the same at 42 points:

My point is, you can't argue with a view that Leinster have been the dominant force in Irish rugby for the past 13 plus years.

Interested Observer · 18-11-2022 4:19pm

One province being bulk suppliers to Ireland is hardly unprecedented. Go back to the 2009 grand slam and the years preceding it, basically the entire 1-10 was Munster + Simon Easterby.

Iamabeliever · 18-11-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889910#Comment_119889910

Who would you class as elite Irish winger?

ionadnapokot · 18-11-2022 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889977#Comment_119889977

The 5th back three slot is currently between Baloucoune, Conway, Earls, Larmour.

If Farrell brings a 6th back three player Stockdale will have to jump ahead of three of those and Lowry.

It would take and injury to Lowe and JOB for Stockdale to get into the squad because he can ONLY play 11.

Interested Observer · 18-11-2022 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890519#Comment_119890519

The 5th back three slot is currently between Baloucoune, Conway, Earls, Larmour.

Who are we saying the 4 are? Hansen, Lowe, Keenan, JOB? I always forget very obvious players when thinking about these squads.

I think JOB has absolutely rocketed up the reckoning after this test series (I mean he was nowhere before it) but wouldn't see him as nailed on or anything close to it tbh. Balacoune was favoured at the outset, there's a lot of rugby left to play. With the greatest of respect to him I hope it isn't Earls. I don't think Larmour is really fancied by the coaches either so I'd say JOB, Balacoune and Conway are going for 2 spots and I think it's hard to call, Conway maybe struggling from lack of rugby.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-11-2022 5:13pm

I have JOB locked in out of 6 back 3 spots because he can cover centre.

If there's 5 back three spots and an extra centre JOB might have to fight for his spot more.

Lowe Hansen and Keenan are imo locked in barring injury.

Conway Earls Baloucoune Stockdale Larmour and Lowry could all snatch at the last spots in the squad.

Mind you I expect that injuries might have a say but given that it would be 10 players into 5 or 6 spots there will be damn decent back three players left behind.

BoardsMember · 18-11-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890440#Comment_119890440

Elite I'd have Lowe and Hansen - have shown consistent form at a high level. Earls in his prime. Conway when he's fit, assuming he's still capable of the level in his last outings.

Maybe elite isn't a great word to use. Maybe bettet to list out where I would have him in the pecking order - I would think around where Larmour is.

Former Former Former · 18-11-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119889964#Comment_119889964

Ah look, JJH wasn't a "bad" player, that was an exaggeration, but he is not and never was good enough to be the Munster first choice or involved with Ireland as was suggested, and Carbery's arrival didn't prevent either of those things, as was also claimed. He's a solid 2nd/3rd choice provincial player who can do a job at URC level, and no more.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 18-11-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890746#Comment_119890746

JJ Hanrahan was gone as a Rugby player imo after Munster played him injured for a couple of months in 2014. OK it wasn't injured injured but it was with groin problems and pain management problems. He never was the same player again after 2014.

Near the end of the 2012-2013 season or through 2013-2014 I would have had him 1st choice. Yes ahead of a retiring O'Gara at the end of 2012/2013.

ionadnapokot · 18-11-2022 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119890541#Comment_119890541

Yes 11. Lowe 15.Keenan 14. Hansen are locked with JOB now a possible 23.

I thought Baloucoune would be the 5th but he now will have to fight off Conway (if fit). Earls is clearly a favourite of Farrell (100 caps and all that). I also wouldn’t have him in the squad….but?

There is a decent bit of depth. However, FB is still a bit of concern. Would like to see JOB get more runs at FB for Leinster this side of 6N.

Former Former Former · 18-11-2022 9:57pm

As good as JOB has been, he's done it in the absence of Larmour and Conway and I'm still holding out hope that Addison will come back. JOB isn't a lock for anything yet IMO.

hold my beer · 18-11-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891718#Comment_119891718

Keenan so good he's playing 2 positions 😂

ionadnapokot · 18-11-2022 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891738#Comment_119891738

Perhaps. Larmour just has the 6N though. I doubt Farrell is going to promote him ahead of Hansen, Conway or Baloucoune into the 14. jersey.

Most have effectively run out of road to get ahead of the incumbent’s. JOB has positioned himself nicely. Playing 13, 15 and now 11. Invaluable for a WC squad.

Personally I’m a massive fan of Larmour but I just don’t see where he’s going to get a chance to push ahead of the others. He needs Farrell to pick six back-three players to have a good chance.

ionadnapokot · 18-11-2022 10:56pm

STATEMENT: This Irish teams results and performances have provided them with their best ever platform to challenge at the RWC.

Over the last 12 months they have won 12 matches and lost 1.

Most importantly they were connivingly the better side v NZ over 3 Test’s & also beaten SA somewhat convincingly.

To my mind those opponents are Ireland’s best route to a RWC Final. i.e. avoiding France

Interestingly IF (MASSIVE) Ireland do manage to overcome those teams Australia will more than likely be the opponent in-waiting in the Semi-Final.

NEWSFLASH – For the above to play out; Ireland need JGP and Sexton halfback and Australia need White and Quade Cooper at halfback

I expect Ireland to win convincingly tomorrow but it will be a very different (Cooper, Kerevi and Koroibete) Wallaby side WHEN we play them in the Stade de France on 20th Oct.

Must love hardship · 18-11-2022 11:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891956#Comment_119891956

Lost 2 games..

Alot of people forget we were beaten by double scores in the first test in new zealand.

molloyjh · 18-11-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891738#Comment_119891738

He’s one of a very few number of players with wide ranging versatility. That’s going to count for a hell of a lot. He wouldn’t be locked in but he would be right on the verge of it.

18-11-2022 11:53pm

I think we'll win tomorrow and I suspect we'll control the game reasonably well but Australia don't need much more than scraps to create scoring opportunities and if we're not as consistent in defence as we have been then we could find ourselves in the usual situation against them where we work very hard for points and they tally up off minor mistakes.

We've lost to France this year as well as NZ. Interestingly if we beat Australia tomorrow then we've done the three big southern hemisphere teams in one years for the first time since England did it in 2002. Before winning the World Cup the following year.

aloooof · 18-11-2022 11:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892202#Comment_119892202

I’m with FFF on this, I don’t think he’s on the verge of locked in yet, and that his ascent just shows how quickly things can change.

If Henshaw didn’t get injured, it’s entirely possible (likely?) both JOB’s and McCloskey’s prospects look entirely different now.

And while versatility is of value in a RWC squad, Farrell has shown quite a bit that he’s comfortable with a dedicated centre in the 23 jersey, so it’s less valuable than it would be under other coaches.

All_in_Flynn · 19-11-2022 12:13am

Not sure what to expect tomorrow really. Australia are a strange side currently. They have the ability to cut you up but can have periods where they bleed tries and pens.

I don't think our front-liner's have got going this season yet. Between a long previous season, late return to preseason etc. there are a few still getting up to speed it feels to me anyway.

I expect we will win tomorrow but I'm not sure how good we will look doing so. Hoping they give Crowley at least 20 mins. The little I have seen of him, he has caught my eye. I think he has something about him.

Iamabeliever · 19-11-2022 12:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892202#Comment_119892202

How the hell would he be on the verge. He played two games - one he was anonymous and the other tried in a position out if necessity.

ionadnapokot · 19-11-2022 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892155#Comment_119892155

I got carried away! I did forget about that 1st Test!

RichieRich_89 · 19-11-2022 1:40am

O'Brien's versatility makes only taking eight centres and back three players to the RWC an option, which would mean they could take six props, six halves, and 10 back five of the pack players. If one of the outhalves taken is Frawley or Crowley they could be an extra option at fullback.

LH: Porter, Healy, Loughman

H: Kelleher, Sheehan, Herring

TH: Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole

SR: Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, Treadwell

BS: O'Mahony, Prendergast

OS: van der Flier, Timoney

No. 8: Doris, Conan

SH: Gibson-Park, Murray, Casey

OH: Sexton, Carbery, Crowley

LW: Lowe

IC: Henshaw, Aki

OC: Ringrose, O'Brien

RW: Hansen, Conway

FB: Keenan

McCarthy, Baird, Connors, Deegan, Blade, Frawley, H. Byrne, Stockdale, McCloskey, Hume, Baloucoune, Larmour and maybe Lowry are close enough to challenge, I reckon.

RichieRich_89 · 19-11-2022 1:56am

Having McCarthy play a few games at blindside wouldn't be the worst idea in the world if they wanted to be able to take only five players across second row and blindside.

Baird has the versatility, but I'm not sure he's good enough to justify getting in ahead of Treadwell and McCarthy as a second rower.