Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948122#Comment_119948122

Why does it have to be either or. Why can’t we succeed in both?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948122#Comment_119948122

what would you do to increase the chances of us winning the RWC 23?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948127#Comment_119948127

I but 6 Nations is 4 months into season. Players have played 8-10 games minimum beforehand. Not case with a September world cup. Need more than training games to go into a world cup

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948122#Comment_119948122

What attitude would that be? The attitude that we shouldn't just throw away a 6N for literally no reason?

You're right, we should have played the 2nd string in the 2019 6N and got the wooden spoon. That would have made us win the World Cup.

Sleepy Joseph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948506#Comment_119948506

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Welcome to my ignore list

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948537#Comment_119948537

I'm devastated

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948130#Comment_119948130

Agreed. Let’s not forget that the only NH side to win a RWC did so off the back of a a GS in the 6Ns.

It is also still relevant that the 6Ns accounts for such a huge part of rugby revenues in Ireland. The reality is we need to do well in it to fund the game here and that reality will not be lost on the IRFU.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948130#Comment_119948130

Some people would love to be England fans. They're clearly doing it right by throwing away game, after game, after game, all in a masterplan to suddenly flick a switch and become amazing in October next year and win the World Cup. That's clearly how it works. Right?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948615#Comment_119948615

Plus we've won 3 in our history. If we have an opportunity to win another we should 100% be aiming to do so.

sydthebeat

The England women showed that even with perfect preparation and going into a rwc with a world record long running winning performance is useless to things that can happen on any given day such as an early red card.

But hey, maybe they should have thrown the previous six nations cos of sh!ts n giggles .

AbusesToilets

Winning teams win. No consistently excellent side throws games. England build their 2003 win on the back of a dominant Grand Slam. NZ have a goal of being the best at all times.

Lost Ormond

That England team in 03 also had missed out on the previous few titles or getting the slam so it shows even more how important it is to keep the foot down and how momentum from a slam can roll into the world cup...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948127#Comment_119948127

We don't go into the Six Nations 'cold' - it's mid season and the players have been competing in the URC and in Europe for months on top of the November Internationals.

The World Cup is at the start of the season and none of the squad will have had pre season provincial games nor URC fixtures. You absolutely need to gain match fitness before going into a tournament - the warm up games are essential even if they are at times costly.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119948870#Comment_119948870

100% and beating France in this years competition is hugely important in the context of momentum going into the World Cup.

Has to be full bore through the 6N's.

By all means give the bench longer runs if games are in the bag a bit earlier , but the momentum gained by winning a GS is far more beneficial to the squad than a few guys getting a bit more game time.

Dubinusa

So is Carberry the future!!! Lol. If we win the 6nations, my blood pressure will be through the roof.

All_in_Flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119949260#Comment_119949260

I absolutely accept that games are necessary in preseason to get the fitness levels up. However, the warmup games always just look to me like two teams who are trying to not get hurt. I'm not sure what you get from it that you wouldn't get from a hit out behind closed doors where things can be controlled more.

It's not a hill I'm willing to die on though, I could very well be wrong and they are massively important. I just detest those warm ups.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119950875#Comment_119950875

But they have to be played. Just playing games behind closed doors isnt enough. You wont test yourself enough and it allows far better prep taking on another side in similar/same place as you.

It isnt simply about getting fitness up either. its about going outside the camp as well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119950875#Comment_119950875

Yeah I'd generally agree with you but I'm also mindful that there is a lot to factor in on a match day, particularly a World Cup match day. Thankfully Irish fans tend to travel well and tend to be loud at World Cups. Part of the preparation is getting used to being in an absolute cauldron of atmosphere which would be one of the reasons why these games tend to be fixtures (tickets and viewership being the more likely factor overall). Simulating as much of the world cup experience as part of the warm up makes good sense - and if the games go well (both matches so far are at home) it can stimulate the sense of momentum a team brings into a tournament.

Ireland and Farrell seem to be quite focused on the World cup despite the one game at a time attitude. Sure - they aren't prioritising it over absolutely everything else like Eddie Jones is implying (and I have a hard time believing that's why England aren't performing) but the Maori fixtures, Emerging Ireland and the NZ A game all suggest that there is very much a focus on building depth and looking at selections the last 10 months it seems to me that Farrell wants to be 3 positions deep throughout the pack come the World Cup.

I would imagine that the warm up games will copper fasten any last minute selection calls but also get around 22 forwards conditioned to go hard at it for over a month of rugby.

We've an awful draw but I think we're in a good place and I'm hopeful the warm ups provide good value for the squad and don't create serious headaches like they've done in the past.

TRC10

Wales away has just become our toughest 6N fixture. The millennium is going to be an absolute cauldron on that opening day, like you've never seen it before.

If we can get out of there with a win, I think we'll do the slam.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960533#Comment_119960533

Nah, it hasn't. Maybe slightly tougher than it was but Wales are poor starters in the 6N at the best of times and they are far off that.

France remains the pivotal and hardest match by a significant distance.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960636#Comment_119960636

I'd actually be quite confident of us beating France at home.

But our record in Cardiff is terrible even when Wales are rubbish. Add to that, the new coach bounce they'll get from the father of Welsh rugby returning, the fact that they'll be looking for a reaction after a poor year and we're the perfect team to do it against because they f*cking hate us. The atmosphere in Cardiff will be absolutely ferocious. I'm now really nervous about that game and I wouldn't be too confident about us winning there.

I really think we've drawn the short straw in being their first game at home with Gatland back.

Gatland returning may have a token impact on our margin of victory but we're still going to beat Wales.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960677#Comment_119960677

Fair enough.

I remain very confident. We are a far better team, they are a shambles, they tend to start slowly in the 6N and Gatland simply doesn't have the players to play the game he wants. If we don't beat them then we are not the team I think we are and have far bigger problems.

Also our record in Cardiff is not terrible even when Wales are rubbish. We have lost the last 4 (after a period of almost always winning there) - in two of those seasons Wales won the 6N and in one of them they were joint top of the table and lost out on points difference. 2017 is the only year you could make the argument that we really should have beaten them. Its an overblown fear.

awec

IMO losing to Wales this year would have an even worse effect on us than England in 2019. It would be really bad because they are rubbish and Gatland cannot possibly fix their problems that quickly.

Forget about atmosphere or Gatland or whatever, if we view ourselves as a serious team then we will put Wales away in the 6N, no matter who is coaching them.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960865#Comment_119960865

I agree we should. I'm just not that confident that we will.

I don't think the chasm in quality between our players and theirs is as big as we like to make out. Our performances against Fiji and Australia also concern me greatly.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960533#Comment_119960533

Definitely not our toughest fixture, maybe a coach bounce makes it tougher than when Pivac was head coach but Gatland now has to go get assistants that suit his play and find them mid season. Not an easy ask, especially when the coaches know they may not be part of a winning ticket.

If we can't beat Wales we don't deserve the Grand Slam

All_in_Flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960913#Comment_119960913

I can't fathom how anyone can look at our Autumn games and have any other view that we showed absolutely nothing. The players were nowhere near their physical peak, and I don't think we ran even one set piece play from memory. Can't even remember a wrap around to get to the edge bar the SA game.

The New Zealand games are the barometer for me and I'd expect we will be a lot closer to that level come 6 nations than what we were a couple of weeks ago. I certainly wouldn't be looking at Oz and Fiji games as a measure of how we will perform against Wales. I expect us to beat them and I think the gap between our players and theirs is fairly stark at present. Would any of their 15 get into ours?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961512#Comment_119961512

Well, also our performance against Australia with our third choice 10 who was dropped into the starting role with about 10 mins notice was enough to win the game. So room for improvement, but hardly exceptionally worrying.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961512#Comment_119961512

Would any of their 15 get into ours?

I hope this isn’t ominous, but in a weird parallel, I remember Drico asking the same thing prior to that game against England in our opener in the 2019 6 Nations, and we know how that went…

Surely that England team were significantly better than this Welsh team tho.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961512#Comment_119961512

They have some talented players but the standard of coaching in Wales is poor and Pivac seems to have had issues with the overall fitness of the available squad. Whether that's more excuses or a genuine issue is up for debate.

What they will have in February is a more organised and determined defence and that can count for a lot in terms of a one off fixture. What they will face in February however is a team much closer to the All Blacks than Argentina or Georgia.

They absolutely won't roll over and a loss at home in the opening round more than likely scuppers their six nations so they'll leave nothing in the dressing room (stop it Reggie). In years gone by I would be concerned about extended periods in their 22 not really getting anywhere because they'd defend like their lives depended on it but I think we've far more tools to break them down these days and there defence won't be enough.