Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

molloyjh

Worth noting that not only will Gatland be missing the squad of players he had before, but he’ll also be missing Edwards and Howley too. People talk about Wales defending well against us, but that was Edwards more than it was Gatland. So without Edwards and the quality of players they had before this isn’t the same thing at all. Sure there will likely be a bit of a bounce from Gatland coming back, but as long as we play to anything close to our potential then we should have too much for them.

AbusesToilets

No point of worrying about the game, I'd back us to beat any team at the moment. We're the team others worry about playing, which is a fantastic place to be. How many teams would you say NZ worry about having to face? Pretty cool to be one of them.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961855#Comment_119961855

Every half decent team in the world has beaten NZ over the last 12 months. And England (who are about to sack their coach) managed to draw with them. Japan and Aus nearly beat them too. Winning that series was amazing but it was a gash NZ team and it by no means makes us world beaters. Let's see how we fare against them in a game with consequences. I don't think NZ will be particularly worried about facing us in a quarter final.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961885#Comment_119961885

We've beaten them comprehensively multiple times over the last 5 or so years, they'd absolutely have concerns playing us.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961901#Comment_119961901

And in the one game it really mattered, they absolutely demolished us. They'll have concerns when we're competitive against them at a world cup, where they always up their game.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961921#Comment_119961921

A game under a different coach, after a horrible year, 4 years ago. Since then we've beaten 3 out of the 4 times we've played, and frankly largely dominated them. Not saying I wouldn't be leery of facing them in the 1/4s, but to think we wouldn't be a major concern for them is ridiculous.

All_in_Flynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961719#Comment_119961719

Yes that sums up pretty much how I feel about them. I think we've evolved past a team struggling to break down a team who are digging in. I'm by no means saying they can't beat us but I think it will take an awful lot to go wrong on the day for that to happen.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961921#Comment_119961921

That's absurd logic. We could easily go 12 years without even playing them in a world cup. If you don't think the fact we have beaten them in 3 of the last 4 matches (3 of them in NZ!) would give them cause for concern then you are basically saying nothing will.

Also please go away with this "only game that really mattered" nonsense.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961921#Comment_119961921

Yeah, losing a series at home totally didn’t matter to NZ at all. Noooooo.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961921#Comment_119961921

…They'll have concerns when we're competitive against them at a world cup, where they always up their game.

…since 2011.

Neil3030

Ah good. The "only games that matter are in a tournament started in 1987" crowd are having their shpake again. This is always helpful, relevant, informative, respectful of the sport's broader history and meticulously contextualized.

<draws up chair and opens notepad>

Please continue.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964910#Comment_119964910

I never said it didn't matter to them. I said they won't fear us in a world cup game and I stand by that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965364#Comment_119965364

The "only games that matter are in a tournament started in 1987" crowd are having their shpake again.

I never said this

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966050#Comment_119966050

I never said this

How else are we supposed to read this?

And in the one game it really mattered, they absolutely demolished us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966050#Comment_119966050

Who do you think they would fear then?

Ah lads, the all black coach very nearly lost his job and had to change up his coaching team after the tour. Intimating that it doesn't matter is barely different to the blow ins who call tests friendlies as a wind up.

I don't know why people engage.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964910#Comment_119964910

It didn't matter to us. No one in NZ cared. No one even knew it was on. No you shut up. We beat you in the cricket!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966554#Comment_119966554

Yeah, right.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966554#Comment_119966554

whats "the cricket" ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966622#Comment_119966622

It's a term used to describe the noise from the crowd at the end of the third test in Wellington last summer.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966395#Comment_119966395

What's John Plumtree doing these days? Last i read was he was coaching NPC.

Forget Pivac, Jones, Leo.....Plumtree to Leinster please!

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966820#Comment_119966820

Last I read he was coaching NPC for free.

He is definitely an amazing forwards coach.

Leinster would need to let McBryde go and recruit a scrum coach and still replace Lancaster with a defence coach.

ionadnapokot

He could take Leo's role.

Defence coach is sorted. Apparently.

And the successor to Nucifora would also be sorted.

edit:

Post Nucifora who would be a good fit as Performance Director? Someone from within or an outsider?

Nucifora contract is up after the WC but I read before the Australia game that he is planning to stay until summer '24 (Olympics).

That timeline would be suitable for Cullen. It would also give Leinster another season post Lancaster (and prob Sexton) and Cullen would have had 9 seasons as the head coach. He's currently year to year....

Finding the right person to fill the role as head of 'Rugby Performance & Development' position will be one of Kevin Potts (CEO) first big decisions.

Neil3030

Does anybody really know the precise role carried out by the Performance Director, aside from enforcing NIE renewal policy to the ire of Ulster fans?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968513#Comment_119968513

From what I understand Nucifora basically runs the show. He isn't involved in coaching but everything else from Academy recruitment up to appointing National team coaches is within his remit. You could slap his portrait on the cover of a 2000AD comic with the text "I AM THE LAW IRFU" and it wouldn't be far wrong.

He hasn't always gotten good press and I don't know if he'll ever get the recognition but I doubt any one person in any sport in Ireland has delivered so much long term improvement and be in a position to leave as lasting and consequential a legacy as Nucifora.

If every sporting organisation in Ireland was as well run as the IRFU we'd be World beaters across the board.

Neil3030

In that case, what does the CEO do?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968619#Comment_119968619

Makes Nucifora coffee, gives him shoulder rubs and if we win the world cup - a reach around.

The CEO wouldn't interact with the actual sports side of the IRFU, they would be a final decision maker on matters of finance, marketing, governance, sponsorship etc - they'd run the organisation from a purely business perspective. Lots of CEO's in the tech world don't have a development or IT background for example.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968513#Comment_119968513

The role also has serious clout. All the way from involvement with the senior men's team (advises CEO) through to appointing the CEO's and all of coaches of the provinces and all the way down to national talent squad.

Cullen would be a great fit to head up that in the IRFU. He knows the system (the pros & the cons), he's not an egoist and i think it helps that he's from the Leinster system.

It's not good for the long term future of the game in Ireland that the glut of the current Irish team and future Irish team is going to come from Leinster. That's the next challenge for Mr. Rugby Performance & Development to solve.

We are used to hearing that the Irish centralised system is the envy of the world. Im not so sure about that. Provincially we were naturally a good fit but It hasn't been an overnight success thats for sure. There are still many imperfections but it's come a hell of a long way since '95 - the exodus to Britain in '96, the march on Lansdowne rd in '03, the neglect of the AIL and yet the green shoots of a triple crown in '04 - the first in 19 years.

When we see the debacle that has unfolded over the water Ireland are certainly on steadier grounds. Lets hope they find the right man.

Neil3030

So in that case the PD strikes me as being all about rugby philosophy, integrating a vision for both how the game should be played, but also, a pragmatic read on what game can conceivably be played within the context, i.e., Ireland, and how to develop/curate that.

In which case, the immediate risk that jumps out to me, regarding an "outsider", is that you have someone come in what a vision that just won't work in the Irish context. And it takes us several years of destructive policy to figure that out.

An insider (like Cullen) will have a better read on what's feasible, but the biggest risk I'd see with a character like that, is basically the opposite. They are almost too empathetic to the context, become pathologically pragmatic, and no concrete plans get adhered to.

So maybe.... hire one of each?

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968673#Comment_119968673

Not sure I agree with you on the "next challenge" point. Assuming all coaching/recruitment becomes more standard across provinces, the glut of the national side will always be built around the area with the largest population. But already we're seeing proportional improvements around the country, for e.g., if future Irish squads likely feature Casey, Crowley, Edogbo, Coombes, Ahern, Frisch and possibly one of Daly or Nash, on top of the likes of Beirne, Carbery, etc., Munster will be contributing more than their proportional share.

For me, I think the next big challenge for the Performance Director is going to be how the game responds to the emerging (terrifying) risk of serious neurological conditions, and the litigation pressure associated with same. Getting in front of the likely adaptations to the game, and building a long term playing style around that, will be pivotal.

ionadnapokot

Im not sure if i agree with myself either! Its definitely something that needs to be addressed but not necessarily a critical issue.

PD is not responsible for concussion related injuries. Thats WR and the union's concern (IRFU CEO).

The coaches worry about playing style, contact training and disciple to adapt to the new rules.