Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069669#Comment_120069669

I think Frisch needs to get capped asap because it won't be long before the English and French start sniffing around him if they aren't doing so already,

And also because he's an outstanding centre who suits the Irish gameplan

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069592#Comment_120069592

People said the same things about Aki before the summer tour. He's off form, not the player he was, McCloskey is better, etc. And then he was outstanding on that tour. Our best performing centre out of himself, Henshaw and Ringrose IMO.

I agree his form for Connacht has been questionable at times, but he's a proper test match animal who always delivers for Ireland. McCloskey had a good 20 minutes v SA but failed to back it up against Fiji and Aus. Aki then came on against Australia and grabbed the game by the balls and scored the match winning try, because that's what top class players do.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069437#Comment_120069437

Yeah it's a bit of a crazy thing to say Byrne only featured in big games when Sexton was injured. What team doesn't play their best 10 in big matches...

I think if Sexton was injured for 6 nations I'd start Byrne. I think he's currently the best of the rest. Carbery has been OK this season but he's still nowhere near his best(or international level) and his confidence in defense still looks really shaky.

Crowley could be the answer and I think he'll be a great outhalf but not sure he'll be there by the world Cup. He hasn't looked great at 10(still green but huge potential) and not sure he's going to get a huge amount of game time there.

Farrell has invested in Joey and I think he'll stick by him.

If Sexton is out I'd start Byrne with Crowley on the bench.

Farrell will go Joey and Crowley I'd imagine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069836#Comment_120069836

To me, there are different lists or tiers or ability, and it depends on the scenario.

My ranking of Irish 10s based on current ability would be:

1. Jonathan Sexton
2. Joey Carbery
3. Ross Byrne
4. Jack Carty / Billy Burns (can't really separate these two)
5. Jack Crowley
6. Ciaran Frawley
7. Harry Byrne
8. Ben Healy
9. Ian Madigan
10. David Hawkshaw
11. Conor Fitzgerald
12. Jake Flannery
13. Cathal Forde
14. Angus Curtis (more of a 12)

Not going to rank guys like Charlie Tector, Sam Prendergast, Tony Butler, James Humphreys etc who have virtually no senior experience.

It's possibly a little harsh on guys like Frawley & Harry Byrne, but I haven't seen enough of Frawley playing 10, and haven't seen enough of Harry Byrne in recent times, full stop.

If I was ranking them based on potential to improve from their current position though, I'd have it:

1. Jack Crowley
2. Harry Byrne
3. Ciaran Frawley
4. Ben Healy
5. Jake Flannery

This is why, for me, if we're trying to win games right now with Sexton out, Carbery is the guy to start, and if he's not available then Ross Byrne, but in either scenario, I'd have Crowley on the bench to get minutes into him, because I think he will be our next 10 post Sexton.

This could change, especially if a guy like Harry Byrne could stay healthy, but that would be my read of it right now.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069774#Comment_120069774

France won’t be sniffing around him any time soon. England could have picked him when he was in England but didn’t. He’s behind some exceptional centres for Ireland. If he keeps up his form and a few injuries occur to the guys ahead of him he’ll get his shot.

I’d expect him to be called into the training squad for 6 nations. He may have to wait until World Cup warm ups for a first cap.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069745#Comment_120069745

I'm extremely skeptical that Johnny will be able to stay fit and keep up his performance levels for the 6 nations or the full RWC. When players get to 37/38, they can go downhill fast, it takes them longer to recover. We're making the same mistake we made at the last world cup. Selecting the team a year before the tournament even starts.

2022 form means little in November 2023.

I also think rushing him back from injury is a big mistake as, like Neil3030 said, It takes time and familiarity to introduce a new out half into a team, and unless we want to just be stuck Ross Byrne just because he's familiar with Leinster's system (even though we keep getting told in here today that Leinsters's system is totally different to the Ireland system)

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070018#Comment_120070018

So you just skating over the fact you're spewing nonsense with your disdain for the reported recovery time? K

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069911#Comment_120069911

He will get more exposure if Munster make the knockouts and he gets a bit more attention.

He is contracted to Munster for3 years, but if he is uncapped coming up to his contract renewal, it may be much more expensive to keep him in Ireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070041#Comment_120070041

He'll be turning 29 by the time that contract is up. If he hasn't been capped by that stage for Ireland, I can't see a scenario where France or England will be beating a path to his door.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070018#Comment_120070018

That wasn't the problem in 2019. The problem was a) our gameplan had been somewhat neutered by other teams and b) then entire squad was playing like garbage. It happens.

The starting outhalf is overwhelmingly likely to be either Sexton or Carbery. Neither need time to be "introduced" to the team.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067973#Comment_120067973

The absolute state of this post.

Dave_The_Sheep

Not for the first time.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070018#Comment_120070018

We're making the same mistake we made at the last world cup. Selecting the team a year before the tournament even starts.

It's pretty cool that you get to listen in to the Irish coaching team's phone calls and meetings. Tell us the 23 for the Wales game, since you claim to know.

Of course, there's also the possibility that you have no idea and you're talking sh*te. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

molloyjh

“Selecting the team a year before the tournament even starts”

I’m just going to leave this here. It doesn’t matter how many times people point out that few top teams make any real changes in a RWC year. Maybe a picture will help.

I know some people just want to have a go. Have a go at the team, the coach, individual players. And I know a lot of these people don’t actually care what the truth of the matter really is. But here it is for the record.

naughtyboy

Why can't people be entitled to their opinions

For me Johnny Sexton has had a good career, but he is also the common dominator for 2019 and 2015 world cup disasters.

The sooner Sexton retires the better, it will open way more options for Ireland.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071890#Comment_120071890

People are entitled to their opinions. But when you post them on a message board you can’t expect for them to go unchallenged. If you don’t like them challenged then don’t share them.

Conor Murray is a common denominator too btw. So is POM. Is there a reason you haven’t gone after them with your opinion?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071890#Comment_120071890

He is far from the common denominator in the disasters in 15/19. several others were central to both and even then it wasnt their fault.

If Sexton has only had a good career then by that standard nearly every rugby player has had a completely crap never to be mentioned ever again by a living soul career.

naughtyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071905#Comment_120071905

In your own words Johnny Sexton is one of the greatest rugby players of all time, you and others have posted this

Yet in 2019 he was not Just poor, his performance against new Zealand was actually dreadful stuff .

It is well known to weaken Ireland you take out Sexton, something the scots and saffers will try in the world cup, Sexton does not make Ireland strong, he makes Ireland weak. To be so reliant on one man is a weakness

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071890#Comment_120071890

Sexton played about 160 minutes of the 2015 RWC from the 5 matches played.

Part of the disaster was that he wasn't involved.

ulsteru20s

We aren’t winning a world cup without a fit Sexton. It’s as simple as that.

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072092#Comment_120072092

To be fair you do have a point here, we are probably over reliant on our best players.

Let’s take out Furlong, Ryan, VDF, Doris, Ringrose and Henshaw too while we’re at it. They’re all so good that taking them out of the team will strengthen our weakness or something like that.

naughtyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072276#Comment_120072276

Bernie and Gibson Park in reality are our only truly world class players, they play consistently at a high level

fitzgea1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072092#Comment_120072092

"It is well known to weaken Ireland you take out Sexton, something the scots and saffers will try in the world cup, Sexton does not make Ireland strong, he makes Ireland weak. To be so reliant on one man is a weakness"

So you're saying Sexton is poor and dreadful but at the same time you're saying to weaken Ireland you take Sexton out. Makes sense🤪

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072228#Comment_120072228

Ditto 2011....He should have played against Wales.....

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072349#Comment_120072349

I thought you were. Now I'm sure.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069876#Comment_120069876

No JJ? Based on current ability he cracks the top 5 imo.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071889#Comment_120071889

Players with a debut in a RWC year is the most extreme 'Bolter' scenario

I'm talking about washed up players being brought to the RWC because they were good the year before while players who are up and coming stars are left at home because they 'haven't proven themselves'

They may have a few caps for their country from playing 2nd tier opposition for a few minutes when there is nothing to lose so they won't be included in that table.

Former Former Former

While this criticism of excessive loyalty might have been applicable to Kidney and Schmidt, all the evidence for Farrell indicates that he's the complete opposite.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072462#Comment_120072462

Yeah, tbh I didn't even consider him (or Paddy Jackson) as they aren't eligible for selection. I don't see enough of either of them to have a clear view on their current abilities, but would imagine they'd be high enough on the list based on current ability.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072228#Comment_120072228

Which is why we can't be relying on him for this years RWC