Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132354#Comment_120132354

Very good point. It's the correct way to look at the Carbery decision also. VdF was dropped a while back as his carrying was deemed ineffectual. Look at him now, player of the year, best no.7 in the world and his carrying is now a weapon for us. Ditto with Coombes, he was poor vs. NZ XV in the autumn, rightly dropped and in the interim has raised his game. Now back in the international squad and many posters here calling for him to be in the match day squad. POM was dropped too a while back and responded by having the best year of his career in a green jersey in 2022.

This is the correct way to manage professional players at the highest level. If their performance isn't where it needs to be they need to be left out in favour of those in form. It's incumbent then on the player to raise their game and force their way back into the squad. It's all on Joey now, he's had plenty of chances to prove his worth and it feels like this is his last chance saloon. It's up to him to lead the Munster line now from no.10 over the next while and show why he's good enough to be back in the Ireland squad.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120129998#Comment_120129998

He has the second highest number of turnovers for Munster this season. His intercept pass against Connacht really stands out, he wasn't under major pressure, he wasn't trying anything difficult, he just made a bizarre decision to shovel a 5 yard pass off to Carbury who was under more pressure and facing towards his own goal and it got picked off.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132188#Comment_120132188

I know what you mean here, and I absolutely don't think it's a poor decision in a vacuum, I just find it truly bizarre that it has happened now of all times. Why didn't they do it a year ago? He has made every single Ireland squad he's been fit for since 2016.

Also, if I were a betting man, I'd bet he'll get minutes in the 6N at some point. Injury, or he'll get back in the next squad.

Jump_In_Jack

I have a feeling that the coaches value having the players leave the squad to play matches with their province. They probably analyse the performances and give feedback continuously. Playing a match is probably more beneficial than training, especially when the player in question has loads of experience in camp already..

Sexton and Crowley may both be ruled out yet for the first match and Carbery could then be brought in at short notice, and I'd like to see him bench with R Byrne starting.

pickarooney

It seems clear that Carbery was seen as the best of a bad lot, a stop-gap while every single eligible 10 in the country was given a shot. Crowley has shown that he has the potential to be significantly better than Carbery, possibly in a much shorter time than it's taken the latter to reach his current level, and Byrne has upped his game and earned another chance.

It's not over for Carbery, he can still do what the others have done, if he's capable, and force his way back in. He's no longer there just as a sunk-cost option, if he gets back in the squad it'll be earned (or the others will flop badly in green and we're back to square one).

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133008#Comment_120133008

Don't know where you get that feeling from, but history would suggest its completely wrong. Training with the national squad is of far more importance then playing with the provinces. Crowley being with the coaches on the EI tour is how he has gotten to where he is in the national squad now. It may have less relevance for established players, but players the coaches are most interested in are in the squad.

Obviously Carbery will be brought in if Sexton and Crowley are ruled out.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132906#Comment_120132906

It may be down the the availability of genuinely viable alternatives.

Previously when Carbery wasn't especially playing well , he was still the next best 10 to Sexton.

That perhaps is no longer the case even if he is potentially personally playing better than he has in previous seasons.

If Carbery doesn't respond well to being dropped what happens if Ireland then needs him during the six nations. A low confidence 10 under massive pressure does not a performance make.

Former Former Former

Tell you what, delaying the press conference until Monday was grade A trolling by Farrell.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

FrancieBrady

Never really understood how it all works, but what does this selection mean for Stockdale...will he still lose his IRFU central contract as reported?

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133304#Comment_120133304

Then add that to the list of reasons why he's not an international-grade out half.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133304#Comment_120133304

Then... he probably shouldn't be playing international rugby at all tbf. Not that I think this is how it'll go for him.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133343#Comment_120133343

His selection is not related to his contract.

He will still likely lose it as his status has fallen since he got it. When he got the contract he was a certain starter, on his current form he doesn't make the 23. He's lucky to be selected at all tbh, definitely a case of having some credit in the bank from a few years ago.

Interested Observer

Carbery starts for Munster, he's not injured.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133655#Comment_120133655

Also Keith Earls can't make a Munster european squad but can somehow get into Ireland camp...

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133633#Comment_120133633

He's definitely well off the boil. But hopefully he can get back to his best

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133682#Comment_120133682

Yep, it's not a very good selection is it.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133449#Comment_120133449

A very harsh assessment. Personally I think Carbery has never let this team down.

My own take on Byrne's inclusion is that Sexton is not ready or unsure if he'll be ready.

Plan B for Leinster is Byrne. Farrell is been prudent and is going with Plan B for Wales and France.

Dropping Carbery is harsh but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Farrell on this one. Maybe it's just good management.

I hope that they will be ultra cautious with Sexton and hold him back until after the Wk2 break at least.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133304#Comment_120133304

If he doesnt respond well then we got our final answer as to weather he's cut out for test rugby or not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133699#Comment_120133699

The only thing you would say is that Rowntree needs to build a squad for the next few years. Farrell isn't thinking beyond the RWC.

Still a bit mad tho!

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133682#Comment_120133682

I think Farrell massively values Earls' character and influence in a squad. He's referenced his toughness, professionalism and mental resilience a few times. I agree that on form he doesn't deserve to be there, and I don't expect him to make the 23.

But Irish rugby squads can be very samey. Most players cut from the same cloth, similar backgrounds, life experiences, etc. Earls is very much cut from a different cloth to your typical rugby player in Ireland and I think that's something Farrell values when cultivating a high performance environment. By all accounts he's a key leader in the squad who commands massive respect and is a positive influence in camp.

When Andy Farrell says he's "in awe" of how tough a guy is, you know they guy in question must seriously be tough as nails. I think there's definite value in having a guy like that involved in an Irish rugby squad. If Earls' being there gets an extra 5% out of other players, his selection is absolutely worth it.

Jump_In_Jack

Henderson, Aki and Earls all not selected for this weekend, while Murray is benching, and Crowley playing 12 while Carbery is at 10 and Healy at 22.

At least Stockdale has been selected left wing for Ulster.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133153#Comment_120133153

This is a good point. It seems to be that Carbery was dropped for Byrne. Crowley was already in squad in the Autumn and started a big game v AUS. Byrne's form has been much better than Carbery's of late and he has been justifiably included as a result.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133958#Comment_120133958

I think Henderson is injured.

Clegg

Tadhg Furlong finally takes his rightful place at outside centre.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1616431045980594176?t=gWLGmQdHOUADCKU2uoQ7jw&s=09

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134083#Comment_120134083

Don't think he's injured, I think he's on return to play protocol after a HIA last week.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134222#Comment_120134222

Okay, tomayto / tomato, but not available for selection. The post I was responding to was implying he'd been dropped / not selected.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134239#Comment_120134239

Wasn't implying they were all dropped, specifically that they weren't selected, all have varying reasons for that of course.

Point being that it's so close to the 6 nations, if not playing for their province it's not ideal prep.

Dubinusa

Stockdale was great 3 years ago. He's just not as good now. Hard to believe, really. I saw a post saying that he hasn't scored a try for 800 minutes or so.

When/If he loses the central contract, his reaction will be interesting. I wonder if he will get back to where he was?

aloooof

Loved ROG's interview on OTB about Carbery. I love how absolutely straight he is. At one stage, the interviewer was going for the soundbite by asking:

The comeback side of Carbery's brain is fairly well trained given all the injuries he's had to come back from as well, so in some ways if there's one player who can come back from a knock like this, it probably is Joey Carbery.

ROG's response?

No there's loads of other players. There's loads, it happens at this level.