Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234840#Comment_120234840

He showed some pretty good control when he helped beat the all blacks in Chicago

Tell us, off the top of your head, on what minute did he come on in that game?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234695#Comment_120234695

Sexton has gone off injured in pretty much every game he's played recently. Some of those injuries have kept him out for the next games. We absolutely need 3 match ready 10s for the RWC (Assuming Sexton even makes it to France)

Beirne injury - seemed innocuous enough but he limped off after this. Amateur guess I'm thinking ankle or knee ligament but not significant damage. Non surgical ligament damage can still be 6 - 9 weeks.

Buer

It's his ankle and rumoured to be a bad injury.

Farrell's comments and tone in the press conference would suggest similarly....

""It's not looking too great at this moment in time," Farrell added.

"It's something that needs to be looked at in more detail. It doesn't look great"

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233505#Comment_120233505

Byrne playing well and Carbery not even being in the wider squad suggests his time is up, yes.

The dropping of Carbery was so jarring and unexpected that it raises questions beyond form. Fitness, form and prior performance under Farrell are likely the primary considerations for selection - but I think we can safely add expectation to that list given the selection of the likes of Crowley and McCarthy who are getting exposure based in part on the players Farrell thinks they will become.

To my mind, the run of games Carbery has gotten recently might have highlighted the opposite - has he shown that there isn't necessarily more to come?

I thought Byrnes performance at the weekend was quite Sextonesque. He was very solid defensively tackling forwards in midfield, tackling in broken play and covering as part of our scramble defence. Given how infrequently teams turnover half time deficits in International rugby and given how fast Ireland start the thinking could well be that we want our 10 to see out games we're winning and a strong defender and reliable kicker is central to this. Consequently the biggest weakness to Carbery's game is his defence and if we're being honest with ourselves it's not a minor issue, he can't tackle reliably.

Byrne isn't going to come off the pitch with a bunch of line breaks or defenders beaten stats (despite carrying well on Saturday) but he's our second best distributing 10 after Sexton, our second best defensive 10 after Sexton, he's our best kicking 10 (86% v Carbery's 76% in the URC), and he plays more with the bulk of this team than any other 10.

All that said - something was keeping him out of this squad the last couple of years and there was a reason why his younger brother with very little playing minutes was selected ahead of him on numerous occasions.

There is without doubt a logical explanation to it all - but I suspect it involves factors that we're not considering in the ongoing debate around the outhalf position in Ireland under Farrell.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235133#Comment_120235133

It's ankle. The boot they had him in after the game was for the ankle.

Rumours say out of the six nations anyway. Another Munster lock down for a chunknof the season.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235215#Comment_120235215

No point speculating but a severe rupture or break and he wouldn't be walking off the pitch - he wouldn't have any weight on it boot or not. Six weeks rules him out of the rest of the tournament but hopefully he's back for the business end of the season.

Former Former Former

It's not out of the question that Frawley could back into the equation at some point. Noting Venjur's comments above about stuff we don't see, it really seems like the coaches have seen something in Frawley that has piqued their interest. Remember it was Frawley rather than Crowley who was named in the senior squad for November. He has a LOT of ground to make up but if others don't impress, he may come back into it.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234794#Comment_120234794

Either JOB or Osbourne out of the squad if I had to guess, based on Provincial form, given Lowry has had a poor season.

Interested Observer

I don't mean to have a go at Crowley because he's a very talented young player but I'd say the Aus game came into the thinking as well, we were fairly bereft of shape in attack for a lot of it and I think it was a game that was just a bit too much for him at that moment in time. He will definitely come good I think with more time and experience. I still find swapping Carbery and Byrne fairly bizarre, I think it's absolutely the correct call but I just don't get why he did it at the time he did.

Re. Frawley, just seems to get injury after injury.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235199#Comment_120235199

Tbh, I think there is something to what you're saying here venjur, and it ties in with the Crowley selection as well; Crowley is a really strong and abrasive defender too.

One point tho on this:

[Ross Byrne]'s our best kicking 10 (86% v Carbery's 76% in the URC)

Carbery isn't having an especially good season off the tee, but my impression is that, over the long run, I'd be surprised if RB is appreciably better than him in that regard.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235224#Comment_120235224

Break sure, but a ruptured ligament in a brace/moonboot wouldn’t stop him walking around on it.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235199#Comment_120235199

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Players were being picked on potential. We're now in the home straight for the RWC and none of those players have delivered on their potential so Farrell has decided to go with the known factor of Byrne, despite his limitations, which are outweighed by the positives of his play.

The third choice 10 jersey is still up for grabs and it will probably go to a player who is versatile enough to warrant a squad place. That's assuming the two first choice OHs make it to the autumn unscathed. In which case we will revert to the next most experienced player.

Does anyone know what the current protocol is for failed HIA? If Herring can't play against Italy and Sheehan is still injured who comes in? Heffernan?

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233505#Comment_120233505

ROG has been talking about Ross for a number of years now on the that podcast and always says what a quality player he is, in fact I had a sneaky feeling that he might go after Byrne when his contract was up and with him locked out of Ireland at that time it would be a good move. Anyway that didn't happen

The interesting bit was the question about why Byrne was out in the cold. ROG didn't really answer the question but made something up about working on things. He has added "a lot more" and about attacking the line.

Interested Observer

ROG hedged his comments a little for obvious reasons but it seemed pretty obvious he though Antonio should have been sent off too.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235464#Comment_120235464

A failed HIA means player goes through the return to play protocols. Post-game, players who undergo HIA are required to complete a medical evaluation and assessed again 36-48 hours after game. full protocol lasts 12 days

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235464#Comment_120235464

Does anyone know what the current protocol is for failed HIA? If Herring can't play against Italy and Sheehan is still injured who comes in? Heffernan?

Keep in mind there's a two-week gap to the Italy game, so unless Herring is very badly off, he'll surely be available. You'd assume Heffernan would be next up if not.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235199#Comment_120235199

Carbery issue was the game in Nov....Farrell was not happy after it and he showed it in interview. Carbery again had been given the chance to run a game v a lesser tiered country in Fiji

I am a huge Joey fan and he did play well in the last NZ game on the tour for the few mins he was on but before that I am struggling. He got a pass on the game v France last year but I didn't think he played well. A few people in the media seem to talk him up all the time and then in next conversation complain about the other options.

Maybe after the Fiji game Ireland coaching looked at it and said in reality Joey can't be trusted to run a game in the WC when Sexton will have to be rested. Have we ever seen Farrell react like that after a game?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235510#Comment_120235510

I actually thought he did well vs France last year. Bear in mind, JGP had one of his poorer games, and France made an absolute mess of the breakdown. Even with that, I still understand the decision tho.

The weird thing about the dropping to me was that he had actually been going pretty well for Munster from the AI's on.

A2LUE42

Regarding the 10s. I think it might be a way of covering all the bases. With both Sexton and Carbery prone to injury, that would leave a big gap if they were both out.

As it is now, Byrne has stepped up well and seems to be solid. Crowley is also in the squad acclimatising and becoming familiar with the setup. If there is an injury to Sexton or either of the others, Carberry is available to join the squad and would be familiar enough to slot in without a huge level of disruption. Not sure if this is part of a plan to provide the maximum coverage in a critical position, but I think it has the potential to.

kita99

I think that Farrel has no intention to use Prendargust and Blade in next game but helpers for practice. If that's the case, he make both two players return to Connacht at once.In any case they could been in Italy from this week-end.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235563#Comment_120235563

It might be a consequence but imo if Farrell thought Carbery was the #2 or #3 at the moment, he'd be in the squad. In hindsight, the Fiji game probably did a lot of damage to Carbery. Having said that I still wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he was back in the wider squad later in the 6N.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235262#Comment_120235262

Job stays for versatility in my opinion. Osborne also covers fb. Tough one. I have a feeling neither will be taking holidays/playing for province either way.

Former Former Former

Might be worth remembering that it was Frawley rather than Crowley who was originally named in the November squad. He's a long way back but if the coaches saw something they liked in him (which they obviously did), he could be a bolter for the warm-up games.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235199#Comment_120235199

Get out of my head!

Both good kickers (byrne ahead IMHO). Both reliable, Carbery has shown this in green. The big difference for me is control and defence in byrnes favour. Big boy and tackles well.

Carbery has more of an x factor, but byrne has improved I think.

Byrne can also move to 12 if needed.

It's a tough one. I like both players, but for backup 10 it's the Leinster man.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235767#Comment_120235767

Carbery has more of an x factor

I'm quibbling here but at international level I don't really know that he does. Byrne has has obvious limitations but I can't really remember much x-factor from Carbery for Ireland tbh.

phog

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1625117588954177536?t=X8mXqiFTCsMjhQF3sGbdLQ&s=19

25 players stay in camp, rest return to be available to the provinces

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235805#Comment_120235805

So anyone who has played is staying and anyone who hasn't played is released as you'd expect.

Those continuing to rehab with Ireland and not their province must be expected to have a reasonable chance of recovery by tournament end (Sheehan, Furlong, Henshaw, Healy, Gibson-Park). Sexton's injury appears to be minor enough going by the language used.

Nothing you can really read into what they've said about Beirne but am still hopeful it's minor.

Former Former Former

Interesting that it's Baird who's covering for Beirne rather than McCarthy, despite Baird having been named as a back-row.

Otherwise, no surprises.