Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271878#Comment_120271878

Can you explain to me what Penny did in the EI tour that was so much better than what Hodnett did?

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272571#Comment_120272571

When they start picking Leinster journeymen I'll change my mind. There are plenty of marginal calls that aren't discussed because its not a Leinster player chosen. But if they start picking Ed Byrne, Molony etc. sure. But high potential players? I'll take a bit more convincing.

There are some arguing that picking this many Leinster players can be/is an issue - this I can see and agree with.

But the idea that they're picking inferior players just because they wear a blue jersey, for the current number one team in the world? Doesn't add up. Do you think we can afford to be that biased and inefficient, but still this successful?

connemara man

MOD NOTE:

Cut the squabbling especially the provincial squabbling now!

This thread has become unreadable, if you don't want to have conversations in a civil manor, and engage at face value don't post further

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272947#Comment_120272947

But if they start picking Ed Byrne, Molony etc. sure

They did exactly that last year:

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ed-byrne-set-for-new-zealand-call-up-as-farrell-bolsters-prop-options-41803525.html

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272571#Comment_120272571

I'm not a Leinster fan, but, hypothetically, if I was one, it would be someone like retired prop Michael Bent being brought into the squad for the New Zealand tour, something so crazy that I'd re-consider my position.

But that's just crazy talk and would never actually happen.

Or on the other end of the scale, If someone like Michael Milne was being called into the squad as a prop, in his 5th year as a professional rugby player, when he has since played absolutely no knockout rugby, and started a total of 4 games in his senior career, plus warming benches in 2 Heineken cup games (getting brought in with 10 minutes or fewer on the clock..)

Or Scott Penny, someone who has played zero minutes of knockout rugby, no competitive minutes at European level. (having been brought off the bench when the game was already comprehensively won)

Any one of those 3 would give me pause for concern. All three would be too ludicrous to be taken seriously.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273000#Comment_120273000

Ah stop Bent was brought in because he was in NZ not because he was from Leinster. He was just someone to have in case of emergency that meant not flying someone half way round the world. It was a logistical thing nothing more.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272126#Comment_120272126

Why are you using logic? It's unbecoming.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272571#Comment_120272571

For me, when Munster and Ulster start winning. They've won feck all, despite the luxury signings. I'll swing with them then.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273000#Comment_120273000

Jack Crowley starting a test match against Australia when he was Munster's 3rd choice 10 with 0 minutes of knockout rugby.

Craig Casey getting selected ahead of Leinster, Ulster and Connacht's starting 9s who were playing much better rugby, while Casey was Munster's 2nd choice 9 with a grand total of 9 minutes of knockout rugby.

Joey Carbery getting selected for every test match for nearly two years, despite having shown literally no form for Munster in that time frame.

Conor Murray starting a 6N game despite being dropped from the Munster 23.

Keith Earls making the Ireland squad despite not making the Munster 23 for their last two European games.

But yeah, the Munster lads are always getting shafted when it comes to Ireland selection in favour of the Leinster goys

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273104#Comment_120273104

crowley played well on the EI tour, which is what matters most apparently........

casey has/had the benefit of being way younger than the other options apart from nathan doak

alot, if not most, munster fans disagreed with carbery being continually selected

murray was dropped for one game and is also an incredibly experienced player

earls is also an incredibly experienced player and apparently adds massive value to the squad overall

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273237#Comment_120273237

I don't disagree with any of that. There are good justifications for every selection, including Penny and Milne, the ones Akrasia was giving out about.

I'm just pointing out that it isn't just Leinster players who get selected despite being down their provincial pecking order ahead of starters at other provinces performing better.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272571#Comment_120272571

This is full blown conspiracism. We over here believe x based on our feelings but without any evidence, yet you refuse to accept it. The last few pages have been utterly insane.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272947#Comment_120272947

I'm actually pragmatic on the utility of the policy to be honest. Farrell has credit in the bank and can pick the players that he deems best suited to his programme. And if he is going to pick largely from a specific cohort, no better than the one curated by Stuart Lancaster (whose contribution to Irish rugby will be spoken about for some time to come).

OldRio

Sigh.

Yeah_Right

The most disappointing thing of the last few pages of provincialism and talk about private schools, is that poster who loves going on about BlackRock old boys taking over the country and intentionally trying to ruin it, isn't involved he would be great craic here.

Also I feel sorry for @[Deleted User] This has been some of the best inter provincial fighting in ages and you weren't the instigator.

All this stuff is cyclical. There were periods in NZ rugby where Auckland dominated the ABs and fans from other provinces bitched and moaned. There were periods where Canterbury dominated and fans from other teams bitched and moaned. I remember one team that was the Crusaders and Doug Howlett. With more Crusaders on the bench. There was uproar. Thankfully there has never been a time when Waikato dominated because **** Waikato. That would be like Connacht dominating the Irish team.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274229#Comment_120274229

I reckon you're right. The good news for Ireland comes from Limerick, where there's a revival of top end young players. They have been turning out some serious players in recent times. The talk now is about Hodnett but, there's Kendellen also and Ahern. Rowntree is certainly got the team firingand they will be a serious challenge for anyone in the future.

The Leinster purple patch has been great. I see Munster challenging them for the shield and possibly overtaking them.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273023#Comment_120273023

There was also a zero, and I mean zero, chance of him getting near a test squad.

Clegg

Great to see Henshaw nearing a return. Don't think we'll parachute him back into the side however. McCloskey is playing well enough that we shouldn't move away from a good thing.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1628404774470144002?t=anisr7sakXvqUuMykNDpcw&s=09

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274229#Comment_120274229

Up to about 10-12 years ago the entire pack and halfbacks for Ireland were all Munster. There were no Twitter Patreon grifters back then so maybe less of a fuss made but it's swung to Leinster for now and it'll go back again in future.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275714#Comment_120275714

The level of pre-bias amongst the Irish Management is staggering.

Zzippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274229#Comment_120274229

"That would be like Connacht dominating the Irish team".

Only a matter of time, lads...

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274988#Comment_120274988

Hodnett and Kendellan are from Cork, Ahern is from Waterford

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274988#Comment_120274988

you say limerick and then mention two cork lads and a tipp man (much as i get what you were saying all the same)

Interested Observer

I didn't realise Sexton had actually been ruled out. Leinster schools nepo baby Ross Byrne to start? Big opportunity for him, hopefully he doesn't tie his own shoelaces together or something.

Quin_Dub

For me , the selections are becoming somewhat less about picking the absolute "best" player in a given position and more about picking players that are the best fit for the system.

The current Irish game is all about the system and much less about the individuals.

Obviously to be able to play in the system you have to be of a certain standard , but the key attribute seems to me to be the players ability to fit into the system.

And the reality is that the Leinster system is the closest to the Irish system at present so that gives players from Leinster an advantage over other players at roughly the same level. - Penny vs Hodnett or Milne vs Wycherley in recent examples.

As the Munster game plan progresses and evolves that advantage will decrease quite a bit.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275845#Comment_120275845

Wasn't referring to where they're from. Just Munster are based in Limerick

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275847#Comment_120275847

Meant Munster lads.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275913#Comment_120275913

i get what you were saying, but as a proud corkonian i couldnt let it slide im afraid

Dubinusa

Moving forward!!! Yayyy! The next summer series should see new lads blooded and fringe lads tested. This will be a tour that will see Hodnett and Penny, imo.

johnnyskeleton

Its such a difficult call. You really want to see as many players getting pre world cup competitive experience as possible and Italy is a good opportunity for them. On the other hand, gotta keep winning and dont want to change the team too much, lest they lose the magic.

The only changes I would make from the France match are:

Dan Sheehan back in

Henderson instead of injured Beirne

Ross Byrne at 10 if Sexton injured

Maybe Larmour instead of Lowe

Furlong and Henshaw on the bench if they are passed as fit.

But another part of me really wants to roll the dice and have Wycherly, Osbourne, Frawley, Prendergast, Coombes etc all start and play wild and wonderful loose rugby