Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

its_phil

Podge_irl wrote: »

While I agree that there is too much focus on that particular mistake, he made a lot more than that and kicking out a penalty on the full with 30 min to go is a lot different from doing it time expired.

Sorry but I’m more inclined to forgive the fella with a few caps than the guy just about to get 100. It’s also something Sexton is notorious for doing since the RWC and something he is not learning from.

Sexton is not a good kicker from hand these days. He’s average.

prawnsambo

molloyjh wrote: »

Another way to look at it is that we should never have been in the position where we needed a 7 pointer at that stage of the game.

Its easy, and dare I say lazy, to blame the loss on Burns. There were a lot of individual errors. And we could have managed with a certain combination of them. But all of them together in one game as well as the loss of Ryan to injury was just too much overall.

It's nuts anyway. Some of the people screaming for Burns to be dropped are screaming for AN Other out half to be drafted in for a few games 'to see how they'd go'. Forgetting completely that Burns is in exactly that position.

Aside from that, I really can't understand the angst about that game. The minute POM was sent off, we were dust. That we held on and even took the lead was remarkable, but you can't play for 65 minutes with a man down and not leave gaps, make mistakes and give up penalties and scores. Most neutral commentators (including Welsh ones) think that was an exceptional performance from Ireland. When you look at how Wales defended in the second half, we made some remarkable gain line breaks. Anyhoo, France will not be sure what to expect from us, so there's that.

TRC10

Dual wheels wrote: »

100% right, as I keep saying if he was good enough England would have capped him, I think we can all agree he’s not sextons replacement so why was he brought into the squad when we have 3 solid home grown outhalves in Ross Byrne hanrahan and carty, carty was brought to the WC so he must have done something right
Why have we constantly been looking elsewhere for a new ten, bleyndal was even being lined up before he got injured
I would even consider keatley to be brought in to start next week ahead of burns
At the end of the day we have keatley Jackson and madigan who are all better options than burns

This argument is spectacularly stupid because there are dozens of brilliant players who dont/never got a look in for England. The current European player of the year cant get a look in for England. Last seasons Heineken Cup winning out half and captain hasnt been capped by England. So I suppose by your logic they "aren't good enough".

You can probably make a strong argument that Burns isnt international quality. But if that's the case then Sexton isnt international quality either because theres nothing ive seen from sexton in the last 2 years to suggest hes any better.

No matter what out half we field, we will suffer. So why not suffer short term with the 21 year old who has bags of potential, rather than suffer on with the 36 year old who is only getting worse and has gone of injured in 6 of the 9 games hes played this season.

Who cares about the pecking order at a province who has a completely different agenda to Ireland. Players have literally played for ireland before they've played for their province. Because we're not winning anything with any of our out halfs this season.

Louis Friend

The hurdle for introducing a non-Irish ‘project player’ or some other country’s cast-off under the ‘Granny Rule’ should be very high.

The player should be substantially better than our own indigenous options.

If Burns was any good, England would have signed him after he played 20s.

He shouldn’t have been next or near the squad in the first place.

I stand by my earlier comments; we should focus on four outhalves: Sexton as our No 1. Joey as his heir apparent, injury permitting. Harry Byrne slowly introduced as the future. And Ian Madigan as our ‘off the bench option’ and second choice whilst Joey’s getting fit and Harry’s developing.

The rest, i.e. Carty, R Byrne, Hanrahan, Burns, etc, should stick to what they do best: playing against second string Pro 14 dross on a Friday night.

OldRio

Louis Friend wrote: »

The hurdle for introducing a non-Irish ‘project player’ or some other country’s cast-off under the ‘Granny Rule’ should be very high.

The player should be substantially better than our own indigenous options.

If Burns was any good, England would have signed him after he played 20s.

He shouldn’t have been next or near the squad in the first place.

I stand by my earlier comments; we should focus on four outhalves: Sexton as our No 1. Joey as his heir apparent, injury permitting. Harry Byrne slowly introduced as the future. And Ian Madigan as our ‘off the bench option’ and second choice whilst Joey’s getting fit and Harry’s developing.

The rest, i.e. Carty, R Byrne, Hanrahan, Burns, etc, should stick to what they do best: playing against second string Pro 14 dross on a Friday night.

Just, just no.

TRC10

Louis Friend wrote: »

The hurdle for introducing a non-Irish ‘project player’ or some other country’s cast-off under the ‘Granny Rule’ should be very high.

The player should be substantially better than our own indigenous options.

If Burns was any good, England would have signed him after he played 20s.

He shouldn’t have been next or near the squad in the first place.

I stand by my earlier comments; we should focus on four outhalves: Sexton as our No 1. Joey as his heir apparent, injury permitting. Harry Byrne slowly introduced as the future. And Ian Madigan as our ‘off the bench option’ and second choice whilst Joey’s getting fit and Harry’s developing.

The rest, i.e. Carty, R Byrne, Hanrahan, Burns, etc, should stick to what they do best: playing against second string Pro 14 dross on a Friday night.

Billy Burns "isnt any good" but the 32 year old who has been at 4 clubs and failed to be the starting 10 at every single one is good enough to be 2nd choice. Either I'm missing something or my IQ is too low to comprehend some of the genius on this forum.

irishbucsfan

Why would we pick Madigan over Burns? That makes no sense.

They should do as they're doing, pick the best player available in their position playing on the island, and discard any weird xenophobic notions.

Louis Friend

Ian Madigan went abroad, proved himself, and did his stuff for us at the World Cup in 2015.

We don’t need guys like Billy Burns.

Someone like Ian Madigan would provide a bit of X Factor.

TRC10

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ian Madigan went abroad, proved himself, and did his stuff for us at the World Cup in 2015.

We don’t need guys like Billy Burns.

Someone like Ian Madigan would provide a bit of X Factor.

In what universe is playing a season in the championship with Bristol, then losing his place to Callum Sheedy "proving yourself"?

lawrencesummers

If the Farrell doesn’t pick Burns for the France match day 23 then the needs to pick an OH that is capable of learning, getting experienced at this level and becoming a viable option at 10 with one eye on the World Cup.


JJ and Madigan don’t fit into that category.

The Byrnes, Carthy and Healy do.

Brewster

Louis Friend wrote: »

The hurdle for introducing a non-Irish ‘project player’ or some other country’s cast-off under the ‘Granny Rule’ should be very high.

The player should be substantially better than our own indigenous options.

If Burns was any good, England would have signed him after he played 20s.

He shouldn’t have been next or near the squad in the first place.

I stand by my earlier comments; we should focus on four outhalves: Sexton as our No 1. Joey as his heir apparent, injury permitting. Harry Byrne slowly introduced as the future. And Ian Madigan as our ‘off the bench option’ and second choice whilst Joey’s getting fit and Harry’s developing.

The rest, i.e. Carty, R Byrne, Hanrahan, Burns, etc, should stick to what they do best: playing against second string Pro 14 dross on a Friday night.

England don’t ‘sign’ anyone. He was under contract at Gloucester. He was Irish qualified and Ulster made him a very good offer and he decided to take it. End of. So you have two professional coaching teams, both at Ulster and Ireland, who think that Burns is a better option than Madigan? Does this influence your thinking at all?

lawrencesummers

Brewster wrote: »

England don’t ‘sign’ anyone. He was under contract at Gloucester. He was Irish qualified and Ulster made him a very good offer and he decided to take it. End of. So you have two professional coaching teams, both at Ulster and Ireland, who think that Burns is a better option than Madigan? Does this influence your thinking at all?

He left glaws when they signed Cipriani.

If he was good enough they wouldn’t have signed cipriani.

Brewster

lawrencesummers wrote: »

He left glaws when they signed Cipriani.

If he was good enough they wouldn’t have signed cipriani.

All top teams need two 10s. It wasn’t his plan to leave Gloucester until Ulster came calling. He was under contract with them.

Jump_In_Jack

I thought Ireland were magnificent in effort.
The chips were down but the men in green got stuck in.
Only for a few mistakes at key moments they could have won.

Very impressed with Johnny Sexton’s comments afterwards on the pressure of being a 10.

The squad are set up for a massive performance next week, I think they have the perfect motivation now, and the players are peaking at the right time I feel.

I’m going to assume that Sexton, Ryan and O’Mahony won’t be available next week, so this is the 23 I’d select.

Healy, Herring, Porter,
Beirne, Henderson,
Ruddock, Stander, Van der Flier,
Murray, Burns,
Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour,
Keenan.

Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Dillane, Coombes, Gibson-Park, Byrne, Daly.

I’m really optimistic about the French match now, it looks like we’ve started to pass the ball deeper and to try more passing moves in general, and coupled with the aggressive carrying when needed, Ireland will have a great chance to beat France.

lawrencesummers

Brewster wrote: »

All top teams need two 10s. It wasn’t his plan to leave Gloucester until Ulster came calling. He was under contract with them.

Cipriani was brought in because Cipriani, an over the hill sometime international was better than him.

Burns is a good player, but he’s not an international level OH, not in England and not in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to rewatch his latest outing.

Brewster

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Cipriani was brought in because Cipriani, an over the hill sometime international was better than him.

Burns is a good player, but he’s not an international level OH, not in England and not in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to rewatch his latest outing.

We don’t know whether he is or not. You could be correct, no doubt about it. However, what is also absolutely clear, is that right now, he is the 2nd best man for the jersey after Sexton. This is the reality. Nobody is saying Billy Burns is a world beater, but for any number of reasons, he has earned the right to be Sexton’s back up.

lawrencesummers

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I thought Ireland were magnificent in effort.
The chips were down but the men in green got stuck in.
Only for a few mistakes at key moments they could have won.

Very impressed with Johnny Sexton’s comments afterwards on the pressure of being a 10.

The squad are set up for a massive performance next week, I think they have the perfect motivation now, and the players are peaking at the right time I feel.

I’m going to assume that Sexton, Ryan and O’Mahony won’t be available next week, so this is the 23 I’d select.

Healy, Herring, Porter,
Beirne, Henderson,
Ruddock, Stander, Van der Flier,
Murray, Burns,
Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Larmour,
Keenan.

Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Dillane, Coombes, Gibson-Park, Byrne, Daly.

I’m really optimistic about the French match now, it looks like we’ve started to pass the ball deeper and to try more passing moves in general, and coupled with the aggressive carrying when needed, Ireland will have a great chance to beat France.

It’s very possible we could be without POM, James Ryan and Sexton next Sunday.

We have a good chance of beating France alright.

The same way of have a good chance of winning the Euro millions tomo night.

We will be lucky to be within 20 points of France. How many players in our starting team the last day that would get into the French team. One? Two? Beirne might be the closest, and henshaw not far off but that’s because Vakatawa is injured.


Maybe France won’t turn up, or they will do a Clermont on it and switch off, but honestly I don’t think we have the slightest chance of beating France.

lawrencesummers

Brewster wrote: »

We don’t know whether he is or not. You could be correct, no doubt about it. However, what is also absolutely clear, is that right now, he is the 2nd best man for the jersey after Sexton. This is the reality. Nobody is saying Billy Burns is a world beater, but for any number of reasons, he has earned the right to be Sexton’s back up.

If the best person behind sexton is a player whose impact off the bench is what he did the last day then we are heading for Tier 2 status.

Brewster

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the best person behind sexton is a player whose impact off the bench is what he did the last day then we are heading for Tier 2 status.

No we are not. More hyperbole.

Paul Smeenus

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the best person behind sexton is a player whose impact off the bench is what he did the last day then we are heading for Tier 2 status.

So be it. He is.

Former Former Former

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If the best person behind sexton is a player whose impact off the bench is what he did the last day then we are heading for Tier 2 status.

Who is the next best?

Paul Smeenus

Former Former Former wrote: »

Who is the next best?

Byrne Jr / Healy / Crowley / Hawkshaw / some foetus who's looked amazing in the inter-provincial A games.

Must love hardship

For France game.


Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Ryan /.henderson
Beirne
Ruddock
Vdf
Stander
Murray
Sexton / R byrne
Larmour
Henshaw
Ringrose
Daly
Keenan

Herring
Kilcoyne
Porter
Henderson/dillane
Coombes
Casey
Byrne/burns
Farrell

lawrencesummers

Former Former Former wrote: »

Who is the next best?

It’s as of yet undecided.

Byrne had a chance and didn’t take it.
Burns had a chance and didn’t take it.
JJ and Madigan are to old at this stage to even try.
Maybe give the other Byrne a go, or bring back in the first one.
Carthy wouldn’t be the worst call.
Healy is the outside shot because of age and experience.


The problem is that none of those players look to be able to put pressure on Sexton the way that pressure was put on ROG.

Look at what Beirne has done, his performances mean he has to be included next weekend, and he is a player many said wasnt up to the level.
.

lawrencesummers

What’s the story with Leavy, he’s back playing with Leinster a while now.

Is he not up to speed yet? You think he would be

Must love hardship

lawrencesummers wrote: »

What’s the story with Leavy, he’s back playing with Leinster a while now.

Is he not up to speed yet? You think he would be

Hopefully not far off international level again.

No point in rushing him too quickly. Only got through his first full 80 mins v scarlets I think.

Looks positive so far though. Would have him first choice in back backrow now based on pre injury form.

Podge_irl

Ian Madigan is not a good fly half. That would be why he has been happily let go from several teams.

He could have been a great 12, but that is not how it turned out.

Louis Friend

Brewster wrote: »

No we are not. More hyperbole.

It seems to be ‘hyperbole’ if anyone calls out anything substandard in the Irish setup.

Burns would be a good AIL outhalf, nothing more. Aside from the fatal error yesterday, he made a number of errors during his cameo.

The man should never play for Ireland again. If we’re going to import bangers from England, let’s not take their cast-offs. We’re better than that.

theVersatile

Madigan Keatley and JJ holy mother of God what do some of you be taking? (saying this as a Munster fan boy). I'm getting serious "I'm not racist but" vibes from the people trying to yeet Burns after one poor game.

theVersatile

Louis Friend wrote: »

It seems to be ‘hyperbole’ if anyone calls out anything substandard in the Irish setup.

Burns would be a good AIL outhalf, nothing more.

The man should never play for Ireland again

This is an amazing string of sentences. The lack of self awareness is astonishing. Either that or you're a troll - and I'm wary of the fact you joined on Jan 1st.