Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278386#Comment_120278386

Chris Farrell in 2017?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278418#Comment_120278418

chris farrell isnt a product of the munster system

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278418#Comment_120278418

Not a product of the Munster Underage/Academy system.

In the last decade or so , the only new Ireland squad members that are products of the Munster Schools/Clubs system are Murray,POM, Kilcoyne and most recently Casey.

Hopefully that will change over the next couple of years as there is a very strong cohort coming through now.

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278423#Comment_120278423

Fair point

phog

Maybe, the IRFU need to invest in schools/club coaching in the 3 provinces to help them catch up to what's happening in the coaching in schools rugby in Dublin.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278468#Comment_120278468

maybe the other 3 provinces need to stop looking to emulate leinster private schools as they will never be on a par with them, and look to another pathway in which the can better produce professional players?

the answer of "throw more money at it" is clichéd, bland and ill informed. its not a bottomless pot and giving more money to munster schools means it must come from somewhere else. Do you honestly think the IRFU invest a lot of money in leinster private schools?

stephen_n

I think it needs to be acknowledged that in the last few years Munster have started to produce young talent. It’s unlikely this just happened by accident. It is more likely a result of changes brought about by Munster and the IRFU.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278659#Comment_120278659

For sure, and in my post above I did say

"The current crop of young Munster players looks good, but they need to be followed by another one, and another one.."

and that's the key question. Is this a sustainable conveyor belt that just needed time to crank up?

I really like the look of Kendellen, and hopefully Crowley keeps going on his current trajectory. I know Shane Daly isn't "young" any more but he's improved a lot and could be a squad option for Ireland at least. Lots of enthusiasm for Edogbo too but I don't think I've seen enough of him to know.

So I'm optimistic.

(and it's not just Munster either, obviously)

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278386#Comment_120278386

Sean Cronin's another. I think TOD would have but for injury. I'd say John Ryan probably unlucky not to also, at least vs Italy. 

I think most Munster fans would acknowledge that there was an issue with player developement around the middle of the last decade. By all accounts, those pathways seem to have been much improved. 

That's seems to be borne out by the calibre of player Munster are now producing. I think the likes of Crowley, Coombes, Hodnett, Kendellen could all be in line to make their 6N debut in the coming years. And there's a case for the likes of Ahern, Edogbo, Nash and Daly too. I really rate Barron too, but being behind Kellher and Sheehan is going to be tough. 

But Munster will never have the natural advantages that Leinster have, So in that context, what do you think would a reasonable split of representation to suggest Munster (and Ulster, and Connacht) are delivering? 

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278423#Comment_120278423

maybe the other 3 provinces need to stop looking to emulate leinster private schools as they will never be on a par with them, and look to another pathway in which the can better produce professional players?

Another 'pathway' (for want of a better word) for Munster having better Irish representation is with Irish qualified players from other provinces.

Farrell isn't Munster produced, but I think Munster coaching, deserve some credit. Guys like Farrell, CJ and Beirne all improved a lot while at their time at Munster.

In terms of development, it is tangental, but it is another pathway to the Irish team for players and part of the conversation.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278727#Comment_120278727

TOD, forgot him - he started at least one 6N game under Joe.

That's seems to be borne out by the calibre of player Munster are now producing. 

I agree, but we won't really know for sure for another couple of years. Some of the guys you've mentioned won't make it at test level, others might come from further back. I've huge hopes for Kendellen in particular.

I guess a healthy balance would be no single province contributing more than half of the national team. Currently, the development path of the everyone-fit first choice XV is Leinster 10, foreign 3, Connacht 1, Munster 1. That is no good for anyone.

sydthebeat

Sean Cronins first 6N start was in 2019 as a 32 year old. John Ryan never started a 6N game.

Looking ahead though is what i think FFFs point is.

Yes theres a current crop of good young munster talent coming through, but will it continue at the same pace? there was only 7 players from munster in the 32 man U20s squad this year. (4 each from connacht and ulster)

last years U20s squad was a 31 man squad with 9 munster players (1 connacht and 6 ulster)

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278683#Comment_120278683

I think on the evidence of the last 3-4 years of U20’s, things have definitely turned around. No Province can expect to produce to the same level as Leinster though. Hodnett, Crowley, Kendellan, Edogbo, Ahern, Casey. Will all be there or thereabouts in the coming seasons for Irish selection. On top of that Daly and Nash might not be a long way off getting capped. Though that may require a few injuries.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278855#Comment_120278855

Sean Cronins first 6N start was in 2019 as a 32 year old. John Ryan never started a 6N game.

Yep. He's also a 72 cap internatonal that is a product of the Munster system. Depends what way you want to look at it.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279037#Comment_120279037

ah yeah, my post wasnt a slight on anyone, but its the same argument you make about Farrell, CJ and Beirne doing a lot of development at munster (and i agree). isnt "cake and eat" it applicable here again :D or have i messed up again and pot + kettle is the right idiom ;)

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279087#Comment_120279087

Ya, both arguments work both ways. I haven’t said otherwise.

So I don’t see how’s it’s having my cake and eating it. (Chocolate’s my fav tho, if you’re offering ;)

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278727#Comment_120278727

It's also likely that Leinster will always have a bigger representation than other provinces due to population and catchment area. Who knows? Munster have some serious lads coming through and Ulster have good players too.

Dubinusa

Looking at u19 and u18, there's lots of non Leinster players involved. In fact, Connacht are doing very well. From a Leinster perspective, it looks less than average.

Dubinusa

Having McCloskey on the bench doesn't make sense to me. Happy to see O'Toole again. Furlong must have a bollocksed calf. Is it likely he misses the entire 6nations? From a Leinster perspective, his season has been awful. Hopefully, he's close to a return. Maybe v Scotland. Or even better, back in the Leinster team next week.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280029#Comment_120280029

Calf injuries , not unlike hamstring injuries are very slow to fix and if not 100% right you can end up back at square one very easily.

I think that they are just being extra careful to be certain that he's completely fit before taking a risk.

The general word from the camp was that they expected him back before the end of the 6N's

It's another 2 weeks to the next game, which hopefully is enough

Interested Observer

I think Ireland will manage (mad to think that but such have been Bealham's performances), Leinster will desperately need him back for the run-in.

Former Former Former

Farrell says that Furlong will be fit for the next match, along with Sexton and JGP.

Whether that turns out to be accurate, we'll have to wait and see.

salmocab

Bealham has being going great, I’d not be too worried if Furlong doesn’t make it back.

Dubinusa

Ringer out. Big Stu in and JOB benches.

awec

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286849/#Comment_120286849

SaoPaulo41

Who is the back up to Sexton now? Can't be Byrne he is ponderous, missed kicks , just shoveled out passes. Carbery not answer either. Crowely not playing 10 for Munster .

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287766#Comment_120287766

Guess what.. it's Ross Byrne.

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287769#Comment_120287769

Then we are screwed

salmocab

Let the hyperbole begin, Byrne did okay as did the centre partnership especially give the late swap. Conan did okay too. O Toole was tidy when he came on.

the big thing for me is Italy were very good and could easily have caught us on the hop if we had let them and maybe a few seasons ago they would have won.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120287766#Comment_120287766

Just going to ignore his excellent passing and decision making, and fantastic kicks out of hand then?