Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377535#Comment_120377535

I'd agree, and in terms of timing if that is to happen, the last competitive game before a RWC seems about as optimal as you could imagine. Injuries obviously the great unknown, but Farrell has shown a wilingness to put guys straight back in after injury layoffs.

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375917#Comment_120375917

Great thanks, that makes sense

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377310#Comment_120377310

100%

It's laughable that people were writing him off before the tournament started, saying he's finished, he shouldn't be in the squad etc. The man is a phenomenal rugby player and the epitome of a test match animal. Whenever he pulls on an Irish jersey, he delivers. He's played absolute stormers in some of Irish rugby greatest victories. He's Ireland's best 12 (yes, I think he's a better 12 than Henshaw, who is a 13).

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377310#Comment_120377310

He had an excellent tournament, it's hard to even hold the Italy game against him given the late changes and the fact it was his first start in that position at test level. I'd say he's a guy the other players love having in their team.

You'd feel for McCloskey because he also played really well, was one of the most effective players in the tournament going forward and in contact, but I think there's a strong chance he doesn't make the RWC squad.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382104#Comment_120382104

He had an excellent tournament

Well, he had excellent games against Scotland and England. He had short cameos against Wales and France when the games were already over. As for the Italy game, yeah it was a difficult position for him to be in but the best you can say is that he mixed the good with the bad. So a very mixed bag of a tournament really.

TBH I think the 6N just reinforced Henshaw-Ringrose as the first choice midfield, if only the baxtards could stay fit.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382104#Comment_120382104

As it stands, McCloskey is still likely to make it tho, no? They've typically gone 4 dedicated centres (and there's 2 extra spots this time), so that'd be Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki and McCloskey. He's obviously the most likely of that 4 to drop out, but I'm not sure I can see anyone overtaking him in that time.

You'd feel for him, he did very little wrong (and was excellent, especially defensively against France, one huge jackal on our 5m line).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382252#Comment_120382252

Yeah, I agree, he had a huge tournament. It's a great testament to the depth in our squad now though when high quality performers like him who've delivered now on the big stage on a good few occasions aren't even sure of a place in the squad. Great place to be.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382252#Comment_120382252

Yeah fair point, there were 4 centres last time, Aki, Farrell, Henshaw and Ringrose. I'd forgotten about Farrell.

Must love hardship

Will be interesting to see if Aki gets picked much for Connacht over the next few months. I'm not sure if he has played for them since Xmas.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382437#Comment_120382437

Andy Friend was on Second Captains recently, didn't seem to have any huge issue with Aki, suggested it was a fitness issue, didn't make it sound like there was an impediment to him being picked from now on.

Dubinusa

McCloskey played very well. He's more than capable and has shown serious depth for us. He'd walk into some squads.

Yeah_Right

McCloskey now knows how it feels to be a Leinster loose forward. You can be a really good player, in great form and not get near the starting 23. When everyone is fit.

SqueakyKneecap

McCloskey didn't really put a foot wrong and did what was asked but Bundee is this omnipresence in the Irish squad both on and off the pitch. He's gonna get the benefit of the doubt over McCloskey if both are fighting for the usual Henshaw/Ringrose injuries. McCloskey has been extremely unlucky that Bundee has so much credit in the bank with this coaching ticket, even with the red cards.

leakyboots

Avoiding the match thread because it seems to have descended into one big long red card chat (strange given we won a grand slam, I couldn't care less about the card now).

The game itself - I found it interesting reading back the comments as-live, some people seemed to be very reactionary and a tad over-critical. I personally wasn't too worried on the day... we're not a team that overly panics, it was a little nervy and loose at times but England came to spoil and we had massive expectation.... and still scored four tries! This squad are, to borrow a phrase from another sport, 'mentality monsters' now. They're reminiscent of England 2003. That's worth some points on the board before the whistle is blown - I think no other teams wants to face us right now.

While it was a squad effort and anyone involved can be pleased with their contributions in terms of hopefully making a RWC squad/starting team, the big winners player-wise for me were Hansen**, Sheahan, Bealham, O'Toole, McCloskey, Baird. The former pair really solidified their lock on the jersey, the latter four really put their hands up. Ryan Baird based on his performance the last day, he came of age. It was a good tournament for Conor Murray also, he's not going gently into the night. A nod for Cian Healy in terms of front-row rugby nous also!

Thought Doris, POM, VdF, Keenan all played world-class level rugby throughout the tournament, James Ryan also - good to see him back in form particularly.

Mike Catt can take a bow also, along with POC and Farrell obviously but there were question marks over Catt not so long ago.

I suspect many won't agree but I still think Coombes should be looked at over Conan, and I'm still not sold on James Lowe being a lock on the 11 jersey in terms of I don't think another winger coming in weakens us unduly. It's his to lose I guess. His defence has improved mind, which was the big concern. Much like the centres, I'm happy with whatever combination. Interestingly, both our wingers were top of the 6N charts for handling errors with 9 each**. That's all well and good when you win, but lose... Still questions for me about backup at 15 and 10 also.

Anyway, those are only minor tweaks or points of view in the grand scheme of things, 'tis hard to find much fault. I back management to make the right call whether I agree or not. I think the RWC squad is largely settled now barring injury reshuffles, hard to see any bolters.

Great tournament for us, historic stuff. If you can't enjoy a day like the last day why bother following the team at all - I remember enough misery in the 90s to appreciate days like today. The u-20s winning was the cherry on top - Irish rugby is in an amazing place right now. Long may it last.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382958#Comment_120382958

In fairness, given he's been brilliant for Ulster for four or five years and got his first cap in 2016, I'd argue he's been in that position a lot longer that any of the Leinster backrowers you might have in mind.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382895#Comment_120382895

Mcloskey's biggest vulnerability would be if Farrell wants a 4th choice centre with more experience at 13.

I suspect McCloskey will be picked at Aki will get practice at 13 in a warm up game.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384161#Comment_120384161

and i think its even more complicated by the fact that the first choice 13 and the second choice, who is also the first choice 12, are both quite injury prone. maybe that brings someone like hume or frisch into the mix, JOB and Aki are decent there too but are stop gaps imo. could end up being a harsh one on mccloskey when it comes to squad selection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384006#Comment_120384006

Good post, with a lot of good points, but I can't agree on James Lowe. I think we saw so much of what he gives Ireland during this Championship. He's a totally different type of player to all of other wingers.

He brings a backrow level of physicality to his carries and hits when out wide; when he steps back in it takes two players to put him on the ground. His ability to get his hands free in contact is incredible and he runs great support lines. His left foot is an absolutely huge asset for us, and I don't think there is another player in Irish rugby as strong there.

He had the second highest average carry of all Irish players in this Championship (over 10m per carry, behind only JGP who had a much smaller sample size), second most metres carried for overall (nearly 200m more than Mack Hansen in 3rd), and had the most clean breaks of any Irish player with 10 (next best was 6).

Our attack is poorer without him - I think his absence was a big part of our sloppy attack in November.

We don't have any other player with his skillset, and I think the fact he played 100% of the available minutes in this Championship reflects that. Who would you have in his shirt in his place?

On Jack Conan - his performances, in two difficult situations in Murrayfield and on Saturday, more than vindicated the management team's decision to trust him.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384254#Comment_120384254

if stockdale were on form he should be able to offer all that too tbh

problem is he hasnt shown much form for a while unfortunately. shame, some player on his day. for now yeah lowe has to be in there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384372#Comment_120384372

Nah, Stockdale is a good player and a top class winger at his best, but despite his size he doesn't play with anything close to Lowe's physicality, and has never looked to get his hands on the ball as often as Lowe. He is left footed, but his kicking isn't as good either.

hold my beer

Stockdale is a terrible defender

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384382#Comment_120384382

so was lowe when he first came into the ireland team

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384381#Comment_120384381

i think part of the reason to try him at 15 was to get him on the ball more often but i agree he doesnt come off his wing as much. i disagree that he isnt as good with the boot though, when he was playing 15 for ireland they used him pretty well in a similar role to what lowe does now

Dubinusa

Stockdale is in a bind. He's not scoring much and he's been injured a lot. Since his breakthrough, he's not been as good.

A big loser in all of this is Conway. He's missed so much time and the likes of Daly and Nash are performing well. There's little enough time left for him to make his case.

That leaves Balacoune who I think could be sensational and Larmour who has been great this season. Both of them have lost significant amounts of time through injury. Neither looks to get on the ball as much as the incumbents. Still, lots of talent all the same.

Have had James Lowe on auto-splush for god knows how long but think Hansen is pushing into that territory after this six nations. Gonna have to work on my hydration game tbh.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384234#Comment_120384234

It’s been incredibly rare that both Henshaw have been injured at the same time. Though it’s also been pretty rare that they are both fit at the same time.

sxt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384234#Comment_120384234

Aki has been first choice number 12 for Ireland for about 6 years now ?....

Sangre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384381#Comment_120384381

i agree. One of my takeaways from this 6N is he is imo one of our most important players to the style we play. Ireland rely on getting ground on his wing so much - either as a strike play or to increase ruck tempo when he busts several tackles. And he never fails to deliver on making ground.

his left boot is also a big reason for irelands defensive efforts. Makes it very hard to play a territory game against us when he can clear lines like that.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384870#Comment_120384870

i know this season is probably the first time they both have been unavailable at the same time, but when they are both prone to injuries its not inconceivable that it happens again. i hope it doesnt as they are the strongest pairing but it could unfortunately

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385057#Comment_120385057

well thats not really true, when all options are fit its generally henshaw at 12 but thats a rare enough occasion to be honest given how frequently one of them is injured

also, hes only being playing for ireland for 5 and a half years so.......

sxt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377310#Comment_120377310

Aki is a 7 and a 12 for every match. He never gets the credit he deserves

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384254#Comment_120384254

I wasn't necessarily saying I'd replace him, just that I don't think he's as much a lock as some people make out. I've been reading a lot of non-Irish contributions about Ireland as obviously they're talking about us a lot given we won it - Lowe seems to polarise a little bit, a couple have him in the team of the tournament (most seemed to go for the French winger whose name escapes me or DVDM from Scotland), others think he's error prone. I definitely think he lacks acceleration and a better winger would convert the further out chances he gets in open grass. Then again, would many barrel over like he does in traffic? And he does have those other qualities you mentioned. England kept him pretty quiet I thought and he was very sloppy with passing that could have been punished by a better team, but then I haven't watched the match back yet (saving that for a good bottle of wine!).

I just don't think there's too much daylight between our wider choice of wingers is what I'm saying. Hansen did seem to move up a level in this tournament to be fair to him... he was absolutely sensational in some games... the Aussies seem to be mystified as to how this is the same player they let go.

Basically our wingers, I'm not sure there's too much between them. Similar to our centres. Not sure I buy our attack was poor because Lowe wasn't there back in November but you're entitled to your opinion on that.

Conan, he did very well to get his hands free for that try the last day, I don't remember too much else (but that one thing was important!). He has performed well this tournament, I think he needed to remind management of that. I would have just loved to have seen Coombes get another chance, I think he would have excelled based on his form, but them's the breaks... management must have their reasons at this stage.

There's little to be complaining about really as I said before, we look like a very well oiled machine and I trust the management at this stage. We're as well prepped for a World Cup as it stands as it could be bar some tweaking around cover. The mentality thing is what most excites me, some starters go off injured the replacements aren't letting the quality drop. We were only behind for something like 54 mins in the whole tournament and NEVER in the second half of our matches. I hope we hit the ground running in the WC!