Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538205#Comment_120538205

Think we lost one prior to Jenkins coming on. Though the Toulouse loosehead folded in and we got penalized for not driving straight. Not sure how that works but scrums can be a lottery at times.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537778#Comment_120537778

Hear hear. A beast performance from the Wicklow Wizard!

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538037#Comment_120538037

No! It's bmnever safe!

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538205#Comment_120538205

Why? Why bring up anything positive? What's wrong with you? Next you'll be saying that that Ross Molony could get a call up! Like there's not enough to argue about.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120537778#Comment_120537778

But he did have a dip in form; he went from starting 8 to the bench from the NZ tests onward.

It seemed to coincide with his health issues and since sorting them out he’s really improved again. Good for him.

None of that means the calls for him to be dropped were unfounded / unreasonable.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538205#Comment_120538205

I’d like to see the scrum stats tbh, but there was definitely one other at least.

While we have had scrum issues, they haven’t really cost us, but I’m not convinced we can quite say “problem solved” just yet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539192#Comment_120539192

The scrum caused Leinster absolutely no problems yesterday, and at the crucial times in the game the Leinster scrum held up well or actually won penalties.

That’s against a gargantuan pack and three French internationals in the front row.

It’s not problem solved, and it may never be, but a narrative that it’s a huge problem is clearly not the case.

RidleyJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539192#Comment_120539192

We had problems against an illegal scrum. We have figured out how to combat that

Ireland will never have "the cattle" to have a massive scrum against the top teams. We just need to hold our own

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539192#Comment_120539192

My post here was correct. The first scrum they lost was the one after Jenkins was introduced.

10 scrums total in the game: in the first half: only two, first one solid Leinster ball, second one a Leinster penalty.

Leinster won a free kick off them as well.

Toulouse won 2 penalties - in the 54th and 67th min, second one after wholesale changes to the Leinster front row.

Generally Leinster had rock solid ball to work off all day, and when both first choice front rows were on the field, Leinster shaded it (winning 100% of scrums and a penalty).

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538487#Comment_120538487

Casting the net yes, but we also need 3 out halves at the WC and until fairly recently we had no idea who they were. Johnny going down in the 6N was always likely and a similar scenario in the WC should be planned for. Some of the only valid criticisms there have been of Farrell is that there was no clarity about who th other two would be until this season. (and I criticised him for it as I thought for a while that RB was obviously going to be involved for his consistency and because he already plays to a high level far more regularly than anyone else.) Obviously a fair few posters here repeat the mantra that game time doesn't make poor players good players but game does make good players better, as does good coaching. Leinster are exhibit A for that. Part of me thinks that Farrell has known for a long time that Byrne was a top candidate and he was slow to include him because he wanted to develop others, knowing that RB would still be there when he needed him.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543773#Comment_120543773

Some of the only valid criticisms there have been of Farrell is that there was no clarity about who th other two would be until this season.

To be fair to Farrell, up until the 6 nations there was clarity; Carbery was clearly seen as 2nd choice. That’s obviously change since.

Part of me thinks that Farrell has known for a long time that Byrne was a top candidate and he was slow to include him because he wanted to develop others

I’d be absolutely shocked if that was the case tbh. Pressure for results is too significant.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543748#Comment_120543748

Do you have the stats, and on whose scrum?

No disputing what you have, just genuinely curious.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543841#Comment_120543841

“Not disputing what you have, just basically disputing what you have”.

Scrums:

1. 14 mins - Leinster put in, Toulouse half. Solid Leinster ball.
2. 30 mins - Leinster put in, Leinster 22. Leinster penalty - Aldegheri collapsing.
3. 41 mins - Toulouse put in, half way line. Solid Toulouse ball.
4. 47 mins - Leinster put in, Leinster 22. Rock solid Leinster ball. Probably should have been Leinster penalty (Barnes instructs to use when Leinster going forward).
5. 48 mins - Toulouse put in, Toulouse half. Solid Toulouse ball.
6. 54 mins - Leinster put in, near half way. Toulouse penalty.
7. 66 mins - Leinster put in, near half way. Leinster free kick, early engage Toulouse.
8. 67 mins, Toulouse put in, Toulouse half. Toulouse penalty, clear scrum dominance.
9. 72 mins - Leinster put in, Toulouse half. Solid Leinster scrum.
10. 76 mins - Toulouse put in, half way. Solid Toulouse ball.

It’s supported by stats on the Ultimate Rugby app.

Leinster were 5/6 on their own put in, winning one penalty and one free kick (30 mins and 66 mins).

Toulouse 4/4 on own ball, winning two penalties (54 mins and 67 mins).

sydthebeat

Just a note, ultimate rugby originally had Leinster down for losing 2 scrums, but have revised it to one after review apparently

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543907#Comment_120543907

“Not disputing what you have, just basically disputing what you have”.

You’re really reading way too much into this; I simply asked if you had more detailed stats on who’s put-in. That’s relevant.

(And Stephen N also thought there was a penalty before Jenkins came on, fwiw).

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543836#Comment_120543836

I mean clarity around number 3, the issue for years has been what happens if/when Johnny goes down. Credit to the coaches through for taking the bull by the horns this season.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544379#Comment_120544379

Ah ya, fair enough then. There’s been so much flux around 3rd choice, I think it still there’s one of 3-4 different options that end up travelling.

RidleyJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543773#Comment_120543773

If you look at the options(no particular order)

1. Sexton
2. R Byrne, Carty, Carbery, B Burns
3. H Byrne, Crowley, Predergast now

This is the way I see Farrell has positioned the options.

From my point of view once Sexton was confirmed as going to WC it was always would Carbery go as backup. His drop in form, the bad game v Fiji hurt him a lot and the concussion so he couldn't get back into the team the next week. Plus the R Byrne cameo. To me Ross's form hasn't massively changed because he was always excellent for Leinster.

The question I would have is Farrell going to bring Crowley to a WC when he doesn't plan to play him at all or bring Sexton/R Byrne/Carbery which is a lot better combination if they need player to cover for Sexton while not flying in a replacement

Farrell has rotated players in and out because of form, he has also tested the majority of options at 10 since the last WC. Which is exactly what he should have done. So at this stage he has 1. Sexton 2. R Byrne 3. Crowley/Carbery for the WC prior to the warm up squad

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544554#Comment_120544554

it'll depend on how well carbery goes in the wider squad sessions (presuming hes picked). if hes showing good form then he may get into the squad due to his greater experience. but at this stage if crowley is at a similar level id expect him to be picked instead

RidleyJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544676#Comment_120544676

If both are playing at the same level then I would take Joey, he is the more experienced and will be able to handle a high pressure situation better than Crowley. He was able to close out big games v NZ etc in the summer tour. Crowley has 1 game at international level at 10, plus very little at club level when Munster played him at 12 majority of the season.

I would be shocked if he isnt picked into the training squad, looking at Wales they have picked everyone more or less :-)

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545778#Comment_120545778

I wouldn't be looking at how Wales are doing things as any kind of indicator.

For Ireland I'd say all but maybe 3 or 4 names are absolutely nailed on already for the RWC squad - For the Welsh it's probably closer to the reverse status.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545778#Comment_120545778

plus very little at club level when Munster played him at 12 majority of the season.

Just for accuracy, he now has the same number of starts at 10 this season as he has at 12, since he's been 1st choice 10 over the last number of weeks.

Must love hardship

Any idea when the irish training squad will be announced?

I know the Welsh squad was announced this week, but all their teams are finished for the year all ready.

eagle eye

I think I'd take Harry Byrne as the third out-half. I just think we need to look to the future and we all hope Sexton can stay healthy.

Unless Sexton gets injured there'll be very little time on the field for the no.3.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547933#Comment_120547933

We don't need to look to the future at the world cup. We just pick the best players in the here and now.

I'd be surprised if Harry Byrne is ranked ahead of Jack Crowley at the moment.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548455#Comment_120548455

Crazy idea to bring a guy who has 2 minor substitute caps 2 or 3 years ago to the World Cup on the chance that he may not see any game time. There's a very good chance JS doesn't las the competition, the number 3 out half might be playing in a World Cup final!🤞

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548455#Comment_120548455

Well he's started five or six URC games and looked good. He's even looked good when he's come on for Ross.

TRC10

Honestly, if Harry Byrne starts a couple of URC knockouts and plays well, I can see him going. It will cause riots it Munster, but it's definitely not beyond the realms of possibility.

Former Former Former

It's less than a year since Harry Byrne travelled to NZ as third choice out-half for Ireland. It's injury that has derailed him, not lack of ability.

Crowley is in the driving seat but I would expect Byrne to be in the wider training squad and from there, who knows?

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549448#Comment_120549448

I think both Crowley and HB could travel, depending on Sextons recovery. Crowley is probably in the driving seat now.