Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

TRC10

Dual wheels wrote: »

I said they didn’t properly entertain him, look where he is now

Your original point was they wouldnt "look at him" now you're saying "properly entertain" (which could mean anything).

Stop going back and changing what you say when I debunk you're arguments.

Dual wheels

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Should we not just have an aul pray?

Going to need it next Sunday

aloooof

Dual wheels wrote: »

Hesitant to respond to this but project players make sense if we have a problem with a position, stander, aki not Gibson Park, why play a lad just because his granny is from cork?

They're playing him because they think he's the best option. You disagree. But it's got nothing to do with whether he's one of "our own" or not.

The Inbetween is mine

Dual wheels wrote: »

Going to need it next Sunday

You still have time to get her flowers and a card!

Buer

TRC10 wrote: »

Harry Byrne isnt English qualified. If we was, and was playing in England, I guarantee you they would look at him.

England have Marcus Smith, the best young outhalf talent in the UK and Ireland, playing for Quins. He was starting at 10 in the Champions Cup for them at 18 and has a significant body of experience now at 21.

Zero England caps.

Dual wheels

aloooof wrote: »

They're playing him because they think he's the best option. You disagree. But it's got nothing to do with whether he's one of "our own" or not.

Well if they are playing him because they think he’s the best option then we need to talk about Farrell because anyone can see he’s not
A few years back geordan Murphy missed a tackle against France that resulted in a try, he was subsequently dropped from the squad by o Sullivan I hope Farrell doesn’t shy away from doing the same with burns

TRC10

Dual wheels wrote: »

Well if they are playing him because they think he’s the best option then we need to talk about Farrell because anyone can see he’s not
A few years back geordan Murphy missed a tackle against France that resulted in a try, he was subsequently dropped from the squad by o Sullivan I hope Farrell doesn’t shy away from doing the same with burns

Who said anything about playing him? Of course Harry Byrne wouldn't be playing for England. You said they wouldnt even look at him. And I'm telling you they would, if he was English qualified.

Dual wheels

TRC10 wrote: »

Who said anything about playing him? Of course Harry Byrne wouldn't be playing for England. You said they wouldnt even look at him. And I'm telling you they would, if he was English qualified.

No

Rugby4568

Buer wrote: »

England have Marcus Smith, the best young outhalf talent in the UK and Ireland, playing for Quins. He was starting at 10 in the Champions Cup for them at 18 and has a significant body of experience now at 21.

Zero England caps.

Hardly the best out half when he lost to Ireland u20s. Him and all the other English players were out played by the Ireland u20s. Our u20 team literally proved the past two years that Ireland have the best young talent in Europe. Jack Crowley, Harry Byrne and David Hawkshaw are all better players than Marcus Smith. They even proved it. And the reason why he’s not in the England team is because Eddie Jones says he wants to stick with the same team he has for the next while. That’s why I think Redpath chose to play for Scotland for he’ll break through quicker. I couldn’t be prouder of our u20s as they’ve proved we have the best talent in Europe.

Louis Friend

Burns isn’t a “project player”, i.e. a banger brought in from the Southern Hemisphere to game the residency rule and make a few bob.

But I get the point that people are making. We have our own indigenous talent here like Harry Byrne that needs to be nurtured and given a platform.

It kind of comes down to pride and being confident about our stature in the game. We shouldn’t be importing the RFU’s rejects. If Burns was good enough, he’d have progressed from England’s Under 20s. If he wasn’t good enough for England, he’s not good enough for us. Whatever one’s politics are, the guy isn’t Irish, so notwithstanding the rules there should be a higher hurdle for him playing for us. Unless he’s far better than our own indigenous players, he shouldn’t be in there.

TRC10

Buer wrote: »

England have Marcus Smith, the best young outhalf talent in the UK and Ireland, playing for Quins. He was starting at 10 in the Champions Cup for them at 18 and has a significant body of experience now at 21.

Zero England caps.

Yes, and been looked at extensively for the last 3 years. Involved in training squads, played against the barbarians etc.

Lost Ormond

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Hardly the best out half when he lost to Ireland u20s. Him and all the other English players were out played by the Ireland u20s. Our u20 team literally proved the past two years that Ireland have the best young talent in Europe. Jack Crowley, Harry Byrne and David Hawkshaw are all better players than Marcus Smith. They even proved it. And the reason why he’s not in the England team is because Eddie Jones says he wants to stick with the same team he has for the next while. That’s why I think Redpath chose to play for Scotland for he’ll break through quicker. I couldn’t be prouder of our u20s as they’ve proved we have the best talent in Europe.

No theyre not all better than Smith who nearly has 100 appearances for Quins and he only turns 22 next week. You are not a better player simply because your team won especially when you are talking about age grade games.

irishbucsfan

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Hardly the best out half when he lost to Ireland u20s. Him and all the other English players were out played by the Ireland u20s. Our u20 team literally proved the past two years that Ireland have the best young talent in Europe. Jack Crowley, Harry Byrne and David Hawkshaw are all better players than Marcus Smith. They even proved it. And the reason why he’s not in the England team is because Eddie Jones says he wants to stick with the same team he has for the next while. That’s why I think Redpath chose to play for Scotland for he’ll break through quicker. I couldn’t be prouder of our u20s as they’ve proved we have the best talent in Europe.

Billy Burns won a u20 World Cup at 10, so should we install him for the next 4 years?

Rugby4568

Louis Friend wrote: »

Burns isn’t a “project player”, i.e. a banger brought in from the Southern Hemisphere to game the residency rule and make a few bob.

But I get the point that people are making. We have our own indigenous talent here like Harry Byrne that needs to be nurtured and given a platform.

It kind of comes down to pride and being confident about our stature in the game. We shouldn’t be importing the RFU’s rejects. If Burns was good enough, he’d have progressed from England’s Under 20s. If he wasn’t good enough for England, he’s not good enough for us. Whatever one’s politics are, the guy isn’t Irish, so notwithstanding the rules there should be a higher hurdle for him playing for us. Unless he’s far better than our own indigenous players, he shouldn’t be in there.

Facts

Rugby4568

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Billy Burns won a u20 World Cup at 10, so should we install him for the next 4 years?

No he’s too old and got rejected by England

TRC10

Rugby4568 wrote: »

No he’s too old and got rejected by England

This whole "rejected by england" thing is utter BS. Theres a difference between not getting capped for england, and being "rejected" but these people with an anti-burns agenda simply because hes an import, dont want to acknowledge that.

Buer

TRC10 wrote: »

Yes, and been looked at extensively for the last 3 years. Involved in training squads, played against the barbarians etc.

If being involved in training squads is your criteria for being looked at, Ireland have been looking at Harry Byrne too given he was in the training squad over a year ago and again in the autumn.

TRC10

Buer wrote: »

If being involved in training squads is your criteria for being looked at, Ireland have been looking at Harry Byrne too given he was in the training squad over a year ago and again in the autumn.

I agree...

Louis Friend

Semantics.

Analagous to me claiming that I wasn’t rejected by the Lions.

The bottom line is that I wasn’t good enough to play for them.

Burns was rejected by England in that he was an Under 20 international who they looked at and said “nah”. The boy was rejected.

Brewster

TRC10 wrote: »

This whole "rejected by england" thing is utter BS. Theres a difference between not getting capped for england, and being "rejected" but these people with an anti-burns agenda simply because hes an import, dont want to acknowledge that.

..............and being an English import only fuels this mentality. Very sad.

TRC10

Louis Friend wrote: »

Semantics.

Analagous to me claiming that I wasn’t rejected by the Lions.

The bottom line is that I wasn’t good enough to play for them.

Burns was rejected by England in that he was an Under 20 international who they looked at and said “nah”. The boy was rejected.

You're right, you weren't rejected by the Lions. Same way burns wasnt rejected by England.

And that's not how international selection works. Players dont get selected straight from u20s so saying they looked at him and said nah is disingenuous.

Louis Friend

TRC10 wrote: »

You're right, you weren't rejected by the Lions. Same way burns wasnt rejected by England.

Not quite TRC10.

Billy Burns played Under 20s for England. The RFU chose not to pick him for the senior set-up.

He was rejected by England.

TRC10

Louis Friend wrote: »

Not quite TRC10.

Billy Burns played Under 20s for England. The RFU chose not to pick him for the senior set-up.

He was rejected by England.

"Wasnt picked" does not equal "rejected"

You insist on using the term "rejected" because you have an agenda against Burns. You wouldnt call Cian Kelleher , tom daly or tom farrell Ireland rejects.

Rugby4568

TRC10 wrote: »

You're right, you weren't rejected by the Lions. Same way burns wasnt rejected by England.

And that's not how international selection works. Players dont get selected straight from u20s so saying they looked at him and said nah is disingenuous.

They did look at him because he also played many years for Gloucester after that but then got dropped from the Gloucester starting team because Danny Cipriani was ahead of him. He simply wasn’t good enough to play for England

Rugby4568

TRC10 wrote: »

"Wasnt picked" does not equal "rejected"

You insist on using the term "rejected" because you have an agenda against Burns. You wouldnt call Cian Kelleher , tom daly or tom farrell Ireland rejects.

He still wasn’t good enough lol

Rugby4568

TRC10 wrote: »

"Wasnt picked" does not equal "rejected"

You insist on using the term "rejected" because you have an agenda against Burns. You wouldnt call Cian Kelleher , tom daly or tom farrell Ireland rejects.

They are Ireland rejects. They’ve been here for a while and still can’t get into the Irish team.

TRC10

Rugby4568 wrote: »

He still wasn’t good enough lol

I agree he wasnt good enough. And he is irelands 2nd best out half.

Brewster

This Burns discussion is getting boring and borderline ridiculous. Just reminds me why I don’t post on boards.ie very often. The guy left the country of his birth and upped sticks. He plays for Ulster, he is eligible for Ireland, and ANY player that pulls on the green deserves our full respect and support. End of.

Rugby4568

TRC10 wrote: »

I agree he wasnt good enough. And he is irelands 2nd best out half.

I burst out laughing when I read you say he’s Ireland’s 2nd best out half. I can name plenty of Irish Qualified out halves better than him. Paddy Jackson is Ireland’s best Irish Qualified out half even all the pundits on BT sport said it. Harry Byrne wouldn’t of missed that kick to touch. Burns isn’t even first choice kicker for Ulster. H Byrne is a better kicker than Burns. End of discussion

TRC10

Rugby4568 wrote: »

I burst out laughing when I read you say he’s Ireland’s 2nd best out half. I can name plenty of Irish Qualified out halves better than him. Paddy Jackson is Ireland’s best Irish Qualified out half even all the pundits on BT sport said it. Harry Byrne wouldn’t of missed that kick to touch. Burns isn’t even first choice kicker for Ulster. H Byrne is a better kicker than Burns. End of discussion

I'm trying to figure out where I said Burns is irelands 2nd best kicker.

Paddy Jackson isnt playing for ireland ever again, forget about it.

How do you know H.Byrne wouldnt have missed that kick. If H.Byrne DID miss that kick, youd probably be saying Burns wouldnt have missed it.