Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

bartkingcole

Carbery needs to be brought in. He is a far better 10 and 15 than Frawley. Crap season last year but he still has a lot to his game. Pity Healy was not an option.

Buer

It's really hard to know exactly what would happen in the very unlikely scenario that we ship two injuries at outhalf and are forced to go to our 4th choice option to wear the 22 jersey.

On the surface, it would appear highly unlikely that we'd consider Frawley the fourth choice. There was obviously an appetite to look at him at 10 a year ago but a lot has changed since then.

But when you step back and look at the overall picture and evidence on hand, it's probably more likely that we initially think. The main reason being that he's in camp now. Carbery hasn't been in camp since 2022. I would imagine it's less likely for him to come into the 23 having been outside of proceedings for the guts of a year. He would be unfamiliar with tactics, set plays etc.

I would guess that anyone who will feature in the RWC is currently in Carton House barring an exceptionally bad injury run.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862053#Comment_120862053

Harry Byrne is also in the picture. And, if Sexton was the remaining 10, I think it very unlikely Frawley would even see much time at all at 10. (See the minutes Sexton played during the AI’s)

But I stand my my main rebuttal; I’d be absolutely shocked to see Frawley picked as 3rd choice OH in the squad ahead of Crowley or Byrne.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862041#Comment_120862041

But, by any measure, it literally would be a shock selection.

It would be a surprise, but not a shock. To me, anyway.

OldRio

The thought of Carbery playing for Ireland makes me feel uncomfortable.

Mr Tickle

I suppose a positive from Sexton missing the warm-up games now is that both Crowley and Byrne should be able to start at least one of the games and Frawley should be able to get some minutes there too.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862150#Comment_120862150

If it's any consolation, it appears to make him feel even more uncomfortable.

GiftofGab

Pb

lbj666

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862271#Comment_120862271

Didn't think his form in a green shirt was his undoing ...

A 4th option out half sounds daft but when yer going with 1 brittle one to begin with all it takes is one small knock and a bigger knock and yer down to a 4th needed on the bench for at least a game ..or sending one of the injured home for good and flying someone.. the later seems the more likely contingency though. Taking more about Frawley or Harry btw rather than a Lazarus Carberry.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862143#Comment_120862143

I'd be shocked, and pretty unimpressed.

He has zero time for Ireland at 10 and would now be almost guaranteed time there in the world cup. It would be a huge shock.

RichieRich_89

Frawley doesn't promote the football enough for outhalf. You want a guy who'll see passes better than he does, ideally. Maybe he's okay as third choice when you factor in his ability to play fullback and both centre positions.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862435#Comment_120862435

Again - and I want to re-emphasise this - I'm not saying Frawley will or should be brought.

You are correct that he has zero time for Ireland at 10, however he also has zero time for Ireland at 12. If minutes in a test was a primary factor, he wouldn't be there at all. Neither Crowley nor Byrne have amassed huge numbers of minutes either.

But in a 42-man squad, which omitted a lot of quality players with a lot of test experience, I don't think there is anyone whose inclusion would be a huge shock. Why would we call up someone who didn't have a realistic shot?

Stewart, Blade, Frawley and Nash are probably the ones with the most ground to make up but I think Frawley's track record of being picked by Farrell means a lot.

Henry Ford III

Ross Byrne is a decent player but hells bells he's glacially slow. It's a huge flaw.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862558#Comment_120862558

At least he plays 12 for Leinster.

I'm not saying Frawley's inclusion would be a shock, I'm saying his inclusion with only 2 outhalves absolutely would be. He is emergency cover at 10, it would be like when Scotland brought Hogg as 10 cover for the world cup.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862579#Comment_120862579

If he travelled alongside all three of Sexton, Byrne and Crowley, now that would shock me. Everything we've seen to date indicates that Ireland want him at 10.

bartkingcole

https://twitter.com/stephenferris6/status/1680889693913722881?s=46&t=Cs26Mut9CR7ynUwJtAVa_Q

Kind by Ferris.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862776#Comment_120862776

Ireland may have wanted him there (I've never understood it myself) but that ship has sailed in terms of the world cup. You would be sending a player that has played 6/7 games at 10 in the last 3 years, and several of them in some pretty scratch sides. Perhaps Ireland wanted to move him to 10 but it just hasn't happened. He is a 12 and if he travels he will travel as a 12 who can cover 10 in an emergency.

I really don't get how you wouldn't be shocked for someone who's highest level experience at 10 is 2 games in the URC over the last couple years to be covering the position at the world cup.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862931#Comment_120862931

https://inpho.ie/media/bwffX8cgAgL95FMVbR6-PQ..a?ts=64PDXAFivbhxn9MVNUA3RJiYmsSlUEynrcdegS7k6mk.a

This picture from training 2 weeks ago clearly shows the 4 scrum halves and 4 outhalves chatting to Farrell.

Frawley is in the group so he is seen clearly seen as a 10( who can cover other spots) but I doubt he gets Into the squad without an Injury to either sexton, Byrne or crowley.

Podge_irl

Yes, he is clearly emergency 10 cover.

Having him as the third choice 10 would, I think, be insanely risky given his almost complete lack of meaningful experience there.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862931#Comment_120862931

This. Frawley is contention with McCloskey and possibly Osbourne for the utility back position.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862931#Comment_120862931

Well I think Farrell sees him as a 10 who can play 12 rather than vice versa.

The other side is that Crowley has barely hit double figures of starts at 10 in his own career, and I think it's hard to say exactly where he sits in Farrell's mind.

I doubt we'll ever find out but it's not outlandish.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863210#Comment_120863210

The difference between the two is that Crowley, despite his lack of experience, has started big matches at 10 including the URC final. He's also started an international at 10.

Jump_In_Jack

I have read a few posts mentioning Harry Byrne, but Harry Byrne isn't training with the squad, and won't be playing matches for Leinster before the final 33-man squad will be announced, so I doubt very much he has a chance to get any game time for Ireland or indeed into the training squad unless there are injuries between now and September at 10 to one of Sexton, Crowley, R Byrne or Frawley.

Jump_In_Jack

If any of those 4 get injured, I'd actually prefer to see Carbery get a call up, he's got much more experience and he covers multiple positions.

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863116#Comment_120863116

Murray would be a better option at emergency 10 than Frawley

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862013#Comment_120862013

I doubt Carberry will get a call. Frawley looks to be in the plans. Rightly or wrongly.

Pudsy33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863428#Comment_120863428

No he absolutely would not

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120863625#Comment_120863625

murray has actually played at 10 (wearing 21) for ireland though albeit very briefly. he didnt do too badly either tbh

i wouldnt like either of them as options at the moment thought tbh

Foxtrol

Reading through the judgement, where they ended up on incident 2 potentially opens a whole can of worms.

If this is precedent then are citing commissioners going to examine every second of matches to see if any players appear to be 'brooding' after referee decisions, despite no evidence of any word that are spoken or the officials even being able to see them during key portions of it?

Rare to get through a rugby game where you don't see a player 'brood', at all times it is impossible to separate how much of that is due to a referee decision, their performance, or their team's performance.

The whole thing is ridiculous, from Sexton's actions right through to the EPCR process. Glad it is done now, aside from the moans of some international supporters (mostly international, anyway).

Neil3030

"You fffffff...ine referee..... "