Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Iamabeliever

I agree, but first we need to get out of the group. If we do get to a QF Ireland will more or less go full strength round 2,3,4 and then QF. Group B winners and runners will practically have a month off. New Zealand seem to be trying to peak for the France game. So I understand why there flying at the moment.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914509#Comment_120914509

NZ want Ireland

France probably want Ireland to be honest

Our WC record is terrible and they will want Ireland instead of SA who could turn up and sneak out a win

redmca2

After yesterday's match between SA and Argentina when SA were pummelled for almost all the 2nd half I wouldn't rate SA as a major threat, either that or Argentina are a serious dark horse

typhoony

Our group is suddenly looking a lot more appealing, I guess of we can get through with a couple of 60 minutr performances then we will be fresh for what's to come, or yesterdsys results will be a kick up the backside for SA and Scotland

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914854#Comment_120914854

Based on the championship I'd lean more towards SA not being great. I do think though based on the draw Argentina can be considered dark horses, right now I'd give them the best chance from the weaker side of the draw to trouble the top 4.

Shehal

Am I living in some alternate universe or something because by some miracle SA odd's have actually shortened after the last 2 round of the championship and Ireland drifted, have punter accidentally mixed the two countries up when placing bets or have they just lost their mind?

AbusesToilets

It's kinda mental alright. Ireland have had the best defense in the world over the last 2 seasons, and SA have shown nothing that would be overly troublesome for me. NZ remain to be seen, they still look overly reliant on counter attacking to score

PMC83

Hard to pick who I'd like Ireland to face in the quarters (should we get there). We're a better team then we were 4 years ago, we've gotten the better of the Abs on a number of occasions. The mystique is well and truly gone. Yes they are on the up, but the reality is Ireland will have no fear of them, we have the players to beat them IMHO. Sam Cane will look at POM knowing he was bang on the money with that barb.

France are a more familiar foe, its always an arm wrestle. With the exception of this years 6 nations a lot of the recent meetings have ended in one score games. At club level, our starting 9 and 10 have consistently gotten the better of their starting 9 and 10. But of course its their world cup.

In truth I'd probaly rather the Abs. If they could, I'd love to see Ireland put them out.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915687#Comment_120915687

I disagree. I think the ABs have shown this year that they have added phase play and some set piece strike moves to their game. And I give all the credit for that to Joe Schmidt. Is it enough to break down Ireland or France's defence. We will have to wait and see.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916157#Comment_120916157

I agree with you on that. I think I would have said NZL rely on counter attacking for most of this RWC cycle but definetly in the last 8-12 months NZL have added a lot to their attacking game, even watching them against Australia it reminded me so much of Ireland under Schmidt.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916350#Comment_120916350

Yeah, this is the promising thing for NZ. If they can replicate Ireland's backline attacking play with man-for-man much better athletes, they will definitely cause the best defenses issues.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915312#Comment_120915312

Out of sight out of mind. That's all.

That will start to change over the next 3 weeks or so.

bilston

I only watched the first half of the Scotland Italy game yesterday but Italy weren't bad and that was without Garbisi and Capuzzo who I assume will play this weekend. They'll be no mugs given they have a game under their belts and may well go full strength against us, where as we'll probably pick a fairly second string team with maybe a sprinkling of first choice players.

I'd still back us to win but while these summer games really don't matter in many respects, momentum is a big thing as well and for that I think we should be targeting 3 wins.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916613#Comment_120916613

Ireland peaked against France. Leinster losing in final is a factor and losing the likes of Kleyn and Healy is another factor. Throw in some weird selections like Killer and Ireland’s record in the RWC.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916745#Comment_120916745

Kleyn was 5th choice lock and while I agree Healy might be a bit of a loss in the long term he was never a factor for this WC.

Selection issues are irrelevant until the squad is announced.

Did Ireland peak against France? Not sure, they definitely peaked during the 6Ns and there seemed to be a small drop off for the Leinster squad anyway, but then the Munster lads lifted their game. I don't think it's a terminal decline at all. In fact I wouldn't even be surprised if it was deliberate so that the players could peak again in the Autumn.

That said I'd rank us 3rd favourites behind NZ and France and pretty close with SA.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916745#Comment_120916745

Losing players who were never going to be in the squad is not a factor.

techdiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915312#Comment_120915312

Think the issue is that no one trusts Ireland in World Cups and it's a fair assessment. Like it or not we have underperformed or flopped at recent World Cups (2007, 2015 and 2019). We've traditionally always peaked between tournaments. Despite the talk I still feel the big guns don't rate us. Their attitude is probably, "same old Ireland".

I'm an atheist but am praying that once and for all we finally do ourselves justice at a World Cup. I'm heading over to the SA match and an already nervous. Can't imagine how bad I'll be the day of the game.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916745#Comment_120916745

How can they have peaked when we haven't seen enough of them since to compare? Also How could an Irish team that was missing Furlong, Henshaw, JGP, Sheehan and then Sexton/Beirne for the 2nd half be at their peak best, that doesnt make much sense to me.

Yeah losing 2 players who'd be lucky to even be considered for our RWC squad is going to hurt us badly!

None of this makes any sense, on that basis we should just play rugby every 4 years and just go into hibernation in between as it seems the 4 years in-between is irrelevant. I think what these odds show is how heavily influenced the rugby media affects things, they unfortunately will write whatever suits their narrative regardless of how true or false it is.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916962#Comment_120916962

But I feel the fact that the only thing they can do is go back to 2019 to find any evidence against Ireland kind of show's how good Ireland are at the moment.

Part of me hopes for these big dogs sake they are right because if Ireland do end up going all the way ( or at least make a SF) they will have so much egg on their face and will be hounded by the Irish fans for a long time...and it will be completely deserved!

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120915687#Comment_120915687

Ireland won’t get past NZ or France

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917436#Comment_120917436

They are better than both so they should.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916786#Comment_120916786

I hope I am wrong but I don’t see us winning this thing and we may well have another quarter final exit.

All_in_Flynn

No real point in picking who we'd rather at this point. We will get a very clear idea from the first game as to where both teams are at. All Blacks do look like they are considerably better than they were when we toured. They've found the right balance. Barrett at 12 has been a revelation. Back row also looks better balanced than it did. Still not sure about them at 4 and 5 but they are clearly a lot more accurate at breakdown time which was a massive part of their problems previously. It's clear Joe has gotten his teeth into them.

Interested to see how Farrell approaches these warm up games. I suspect he might break from our past practices. Appreciate it's always a risk playing front-liners but I'd like to see us get proper minutes into their legs instead of using pool games to tune up. I think the players on the fringes of the squad may only get 1 game to stake their claim.

Dave_The_Sheep

Lots of "I told you so"s getting set up early.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918093#Comment_120918093

I told you we would win, or I told you we would not win?

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120916875#Comment_120916875

That’s the problem. They should have been on the mix.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120917806#Comment_120917806

Interesting that you have doubts about the ABs second row. I'd consider it an area of strength for them. Barret is probably playing the best rugby of his career, Rettallick is coming back into good form and Whitelock is going well. Some good young talent behind them in Vaea, Lord, AhKoi and Gallagher. Also Tuipolotu to come back from injury.

Buer

Scott Barrett is the form lock in the world at the moment. He's playing out of his skin.

Based on the year to date, NZ are going to be a serious proposition in France. I can see the closing game of the tournament being a repeat of the opening game. They're in a soft pool and the order of the games falls very nicely for NZ in particular. After the opening game on September 9th, they'll essentially be able to rest their entire first string team aside from a game against Italy (September 29th) until the quarter finals on October 14th/15th.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120918483#Comment_120918483

What, during Ireland's recording setting successful run of form, did you think we were missing out on by not having Healy in the squad?

I can somewhat more understand thinking Kleyn could have brought something, but ultimately its irrelevant with regards the world cup as neither were going to be going anyway. So suggesting its a factor in anything is clearly untrue.

Buer

Based on his form over the last 9 months, Healy would have been worth a spot in the wider Irish squad as a 4th choice.

But that was pretty much after the Scotland move was a done deal. There's nothing prior to that period that suggested he really should have been in the squad. He came onto the scene and landed a few big penalties which earned him a decent amount of coverage a few years ago. Since then, his form was fairly patchy and Burns, Crowley and Byrne x 2 have all been selected ahead of him.

Maybe his significantly improved form has been as a result of the confidence boost he has received through the Scottish move. Maybe he has been a beneficiary of working with Prendergast. But ultimately, he didn't really demand/deserve any involvement for Ireland prior to declaring for Scotland. Even in the opening 2 months of the season, he was largely uninspiring and a contributor to a sloppy start to the season.