Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Neil3030

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2023/08/06/jack-crowleys-composure-and-craig-caseys-bolshiness-have-the-making-of-a-future-ireland-headline-act/

At half-time the Irish players ran towards the tunnel but Casey sprinted, as if this was another detail that required his undiluted commitment.

Perfect way to sum him up. 🤣

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947276#Comment_120947276

He has to sprint to keep up with those who are blessed with normal length legs...😁

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947254#Comment_120947254

To be able to pick from Ryan, Beirne, Henderson and McCarthy would the best quality of depth to ever go to a WC. Ditto backrow.

6 BR and 4 Locks (Beirne 6 v Samoa) in ‘19

6 BR and 5 Locks in ‘15

5 BR and 4 Locks in ‘11

6 BR and 3 Locks in ‘07

4 Locks and Baird, POM, vdF, Dorris and Conan…please.

Farrell has done a great job of building morale of the entire squad (with one or exceptions). That’s why I’m so certain that Earls will travel as the 15th back.

Hes not winning that 100th cap in Bayonne. He’s going to the World Cup to win it in the 1st game and it will be made into a momentous occasion.

The start of a glorious campaign!

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946977#Comment_120946977

I'm not referencing the overall match. There was a much replayed try by Hosea Gear where he steamrolled Earls (who needed medical attention afterwards) as he was about to cross the line.

https://youtu.be/tBk6PjwsILA

Mr Disco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947333#Comment_120947333

Blade’s legs are abnormally short compared to his trunk length.

leakyboots

Positive news on the injury front

Speaking of his team’s injury concerns, Farrell said: “They seem not too bad.

“Jimmy’s shoulder has shut down a little bit, it’s something he’s had in the past. Jack lost power in his foot, he seems ok.

“Craig had a tight back which was making his hamstring cramp. They were taken off as precautions more than anything.”

AbusesToilets

The phrase "lost power in his foot" is so odd.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947439#Comment_120947439

Not sure if it matters hugely to your broader point, but your numbers for 2015 include the players called in to replace injuries. The 31-man squad initially had 5 br and 4 locks.

Neil3030

So here'd be my current likely selections, coming off that opening warmup:

That's 31/33 seats filled.

Main winners:

Casey now firmly #2 at scrum-half.

Crowley did enough I think to move into #2 out-half.

McCarthy really showed his bulk, I have him on the plane above for now, but see below.

Main losers:

Stockdale, had a fine game aside from one massive mistake which might cost him dearly.

Earls, see above.

Nash, didn't reallly see enough of him, but perhaps you could list him as a winner by default, given the more glaring errors by the other two?

Prendergast didn't have huge impact when he came on.

Frawley came into a pretty disjointed side and was moved around a bit, positionally.

Blade won't be on the plane, I think it's safe to say.

So with England on the horizon, the main points I'll be looking at are:

Back three - Lowe and Hansen likely need some kind of a run, but it's fair enough to say that Stockdale and Earls will be looking to atone for their hiccups, while Nash will be looking to show more of what he can do.

Back row - If Coombes doesn't feature, and arguably start, his chances of selection are gone. Prendergast will also want to register a more impactful account of himself.

Outhalf - I would hope that Frawley gets more minutes in a more settled side, but the upside to giving Crowley or Byrne minutes will also be compelling. Another interesting selection here.

Lock - McCarthy's performance against Italy has him damn near on the plane for me. I listed him as selected above, though it's probably fair to call it more like a 70/30 hunch, given the standard of opposition. Let's hopefully see what he can do against the English.

Hooker - both Herring and Stewart had decent showings against Italy. I currently have Herring ahead of Stewart for the third slot on the plane, but it's close.

Podge_irl

Nash, didn't reallly see enough of him, but perhaps you could list him as a winner by default, given the more glaring errors by the other two?

Suspect his limited gametime is indicative of him not having much chance of travelling.

At this stage I'd rather abandon the Frawley at 10 idea and just give the gametime to Crowley/Byrne.

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948171#Comment_120948171

Hard to argue with your selected 31.

You'd expect another back-rower to get one of the remaining slots, but Baird's flexibility might confound that expectation.

I think if they are planning on bringing another back row, I reckon the last spot is between Earls and Stu.

letsbefair

if porter gets injured we are in trouble. reckon he likes Frawley

AbusesToilets

I think he'll take one center and one utility back to make up the 33. Baird and Beirne can comfortably cover in the backrow, and POM and Doris have shown they can play 7 well enough for the games against Tier 2 teams if needed.

Be very interested to see if Osbourne gets a game next. If not, Frawley and McCloskey likely in the team.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948136#Comment_120948136

Didn't her have some ongoing back issues for a couple of years?

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948366#Comment_120948366

Only thing about Frawley is that by covering centre he might obviate selecting an additional utility back. In Frawley and JOB you arguably cover all positions 10-15, meaning you might then have a slot for a specialist like McCloskey.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120948376#Comment_120948376

Yeah I guess the question coming out of the weekend is 'what can Prendergast add at 6 that Baird can't do' and the answer could well be, 'not much'. Coombes, somewhat strangely given his lack of playing time, could in fact stand a better chance of nicking the last back row spot given just how different he is to all the other options. Though Coombes's biggest competition now, I feel, is McCarthy, i.e., the go-to player for when we need size.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949081#Comment_120949081

Yeah it's a bit of a shame for Osbourne and Treadwell, that we face our final warm up (prior to the 33 being announced) against opposition that we'd ideally not take too lightly.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950037#Comment_120950037

With regards to Pendergast, he came on at 7 (a position I don’t think he’s ever played) and allowed Doris back into his natural position. That is is something Baird can’t do

Buer

I think I'd largely agree with the 31 that Neil has named but I do think the make up of the squad is probably still not fully settled. Most likely set up is a 18/15 split with 9 front rowers going (NZ and Fiji have both gone with this) but England have gone 19/14. Samoa have named 32 players (one to be confirmed) with the remaining spot likely to be a prop which would give them a 19/14 split also yet still only bringing 8 front row players. Argentina have gone 18/15 with only 5 props.

Whilst players are in direct competition with those who they play the same position as, they're also in competition with others owing to the make up of the squad. Prendergast/Coombes need to outplay Kilcoyne/TOT as much as each other. With Crowley and Frawley mixing up their positions at the weekend, it could make a 19/14 split a real option for the coaching team. And if they're going that direction, it really throws a spanner in the works with who might be left out of the 14 backs. If they took Frawley (as well as the 6 half backs, 3 midfielders and starting back 3) it would leave only a single spot in the backs which JOB would be the most likely but I really wouldn't rule out Earls if it comes down to that one slot.

If they go with the most likely scenario of 18/15, they have looseheads who are able to cover tighthead but don't really have tightheads who can cover loosehead (Bealham hasn't started a game at loosehead in years). With that in mind, I think Kilcoyne will travel but is relatively fortunate to do so and that will be at the expense of an arguably better player in a different position. Baird and Beirne being genuine lock/flanker options takes a lot of pressure off the back 5 forward selection. And Doris performing well at 7 will ease concerns about openside too.

If they go with 18 forwards and 9 front rowers, then the forwards that Neil named above are probably going to travel unless Coombes, Treadwell, Coombes or Prendergast do something fairly impressive in the next two games.

The back line is going to be a real scrap for those last couple of spots. If they're going with 15 backs, then 12 are pretty much set in stone to my mind (6 halfbacks, 3 centres and back 3). That leaves 3 spots which JOB is the front runner and probably close to nailed on if they go 18/15. That allows them look at an additional winger and an additional centre option. And I think it's near impossible to guess who those last two slots would be for.

typhoony

Just reading there that it's basically 3 spots still up for grabs and it's between McCloskey, Earls, Prendergast and Treadwell fighting for those 3 spots. No mention of Tom Stewart or Coombes and any of the others on the periphery.

typhoony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937701#Comment_120937701

But ultimately he was hard done by because Kleyn offered nothing at the WC and if I remember correctly there was 1 game where our line-out was an issue.

Former Former Former

I think with the props we have, bringing nine front-rowers is the only sensible option.

With Beirne, Baird and Henderson able to play lock and flanker, we can probably get away with nine in the back five, i.e. Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, McCarthy, Baird, POM, VDF, Doris and Conan. Total = 18

Six half-backs is a no-brainer, especially if Crowley can also cover 12 and 15 in a pinch. Total = 24

Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, Lowe, Keenan, Hansen, JOB are nailed on. Total = 31

That leaves two slots open for an extra winger and either another centre or another loose forward. So yeah, it's probably two from McCloskey, Earls, Stockdale, Coombes and Prendergast.

Must love hardship

I wouldn't rule Osborne out yet if he is fit.

Can play across the back line.

While I'm not saying he is a better 12 than Aki or McCloskey. He has that flexibility that he can cover multiple positions. I'm not sure if both Aki and McCloskey go simply because they can only really cover 12 and Henshaw and ringrose, Crowley can already do that Job.

Saying that we need to see Osborne play v England if he is to have any hope of being a bolter.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951724#Comment_120951724

Agreed with this, I don't see any sense in taking less than 9 front rows & 6 half backs when you have 33 man squad this time.

easymoneysnipa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951682#Comment_120951682

Toner was the very definition of washed up. Rightly dropped, Tadhg Beirne (World Team of the Year 2022, URC Champion) instead of Toner one of Joe Schmidt’s solid selection calls. Kleyn selected as Quinn Roux was injured and the Two time European cup and three time six nation champion coach liked a heavy lock in his squad.

to summarise: Toner absolutely washed up, rightly dropped. Ireland woeful when he was brought back into squad for 2020 six nations.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952060#Comment_120952060

he went on to make another 50 appearances for leinster, including 80 minutes in the Pro14 final win against Ulster in 2020

not bad for a "washed up" player.

your penchant for hyperbole is starting to sound eerily familiar.... could you be the new "hyperbole king"?

Former Former Former

Maybe Toner deserved to be dropped, but absolutely no-one saw it coming, he was in everyone's predicted squad.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952060#Comment_120952060

I can’t remember what warm up game it was but he was absolutely awful compared to the standards he was at previously. injured or trying too hard to find form. And for the record I think Toner was a decent player. Not top level but was a great servant.

The vitriol about Kleyn getting his spot was nonsense and also ‘Johnny Foreigner’ taking our jobs. Although the Johnny Foreigner lot were not quite as vocal when it came to Lowe and JGP.

bartkingcole

Owen Doyle is not backwards in coming forward in the Irish Times today in thinking JS got away very lightly. I wonder will JS be on notice that he will need to act responsibly during the RWC games. more generally I think the game will benefit from refs being less pally with players and laying down the law including 10 metre penalties for lip.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952234#Comment_120952234

slow news day, Doyle is 3 weeks late with this piece

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952234#Comment_120952234

Owen Doyle dissing rugby values by claiming the rugby committee cant get a big decision right...maybe he should look in the mirror and just respect their decision.

bartkingcole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952340#Comment_120952340

i think he has been an excellent analyst - he has not been afraid to challenge poor refereeing or to praise good ones. Welcome that he not a sheep - and he is right.

I think JS is without a doubt GOAT for Ireland (and that includes BOD). He has been consistently excellent, has driven himself to further heights as well as demanding high standards of the players around him.