Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958963#Comment_120958963

Is it though? The poster clearly states "fingers crossed Ireland will have a good World Cup"

In my world Fingers Crossed is Good Luck

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958972#Comment_120958972

He also got himself dumped into touch from about 15 metres from the sideline, got away with a terrible decision in his 22 and missed a glaring tackle for a try. I'd be shocked if he's included in the squad. I've nothing against Stockdale but people are being rather kind about his performance

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957723#Comment_120957723

Didn't Ireland win a ton of games this year without Lowe?

He's not vital. Neither is Hansen. We have this really bad habit of blowing smoke up our players, suggesting that too many of them are irreplaceable.

There are very few irreplaceable players in this Ireland squad.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959267#Comment_120959267

You've been banging this drum for a while. Lets just forget the word vital!

Lowe is very important to Ireland. The next winger is not up to his level. I think that's fair.

Hansen is important to Ireland. The next winger is also not up to his level.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959267#Comment_120959267

The one that gets me is "first name on the team sheet". If you read the posts during the week in the run up to a game, it's usually Furlong, Ryan, Beirne, Doris, VDF, Sexton, Ringrose, Keenan. Every popular player suddenly becomes indispensable.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959288#Comment_120959288

I don't think this is accurate either.

Are Lowe and Hansen very important? Not really, at least not in the sense that if either of them were ruled out of the WC tomorrow it would be time to worry. Are the replacements of the same or at least a very similar standard? Yes, IMO.

ionadnapokot

Ok. I would be interested to read your depth chart at wing.

Just to note i think Baloucoune should be going to the WC but Im fully converted as to why Hansen is an important part of how Ireland play.

inbloom427

I don’t really think that is fair either. Strangely enough, I think we had a degree of depth on the wing because nobody is absolutely world class. Lowe and Hansen are in the top two spots but I don’t think either strike fear into any other top teams, and plenty of the guys down the pecking order could fill a gap without too much impact (particularly if they had a run there).

Clegg

Lowe and Hansen are significantly better than our other options, I think. For the aforementioned playmaking ability alone, they're well out in front.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959292#Comment_120959292

well theyre not though

Lowe and Hansen are used as link playmakers in midfield very often in our gameplay. it takes pressure off sexton (which was the issues in 2019) and it gives us many more options. Therefore, are very important to how we play.

however you want to frame it... Earls / Stockdale / Balacoune are not at all near their level of playmaking ability. JOB is, but he sthe epitome of a versatily back.

theVersatile

Stockdale is well able to play make. There's a reason he was tried at fullback for so long - and it wasn't for his lack of playmaking ability that he failed there.

Lowe/Hansen are far superior wingers for Ireland mind.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959312#Comment_120959312

I think you can pick any 2 of Lowe / Hansen / Stockdale / Earls and we'd be fine, it wouldn't affect how we play. I think Earls is probably the weakest link, but that's mostly because I fear this may be a bridge too far for a player of his age.

Lowe and Hansen are the first picks right now, but we shouldn't confuse the players who currently hold the jerseys with being players that are very important or irreplaceable.

Is there much difference between Stockdale and Lowe? No, not really. In reality, they are probably the two most similar wingers that Ireland have available to them, they're both big lads who are used often for hard carrying, and come in off their wing.

Baloucoune is not in the squad, so not really in my thoughts either.

The players that I would characterise as very important, to the extent that losing them would become problematic, are Sexton (obviously), JGP, VDF, Porter and Furlong. Doris can be added to this list if Conan doesn't make it. In the outside backs we are in rude health.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959394#Comment_120959394

I agree with your initial point that neither winger is indispensable, but this is quite a bit wide of the mark imo. I would put Lowe on a similar level to JGP, in that he's very important to our attacking shape, but not indispensable in the way that a Sexton or Porter is.

Larbre34

Lowe's big left boot to put the shyts up any advancing midfield? I think he is indispensable, especially against France when it comes.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959394#Comment_120959394

I see why you dont see them as vital now. You value the other wingers allot higher than I do. Farrell agrees with you!

I dont think we have depth at wing. Depth in the real sense.

I dont like pointing out players weakness. I really mean that. We still have Earls in the squad. A soon to be 36 years old winger! Stockdale? I'll call a spade a spade - They are both liabilities. Nash? Totally unproven at the elite level. JOB is the only one I'd have a bit of faith in.

The value of Lowe and Hansen was highlighted in Irelands biggest wins over the last 12 months. 2nd & 3rd Tests in NZ and v France in 6N.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959413#Comment_120959413

People were talking about JGP in those indispensable terms prior to the 6N tho.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959197#Comment_120959197

I don't think they are. Those errors were highlighted by multiple posters on here during the game, and he was criticised heavily. I'm just trying to give a little balance to his performance. He had a lot of positive elements and several negative moments (being scragged into touch, almost getting caught in his own 22 clearing and the missed tackle for the try).

I would say he's up against it to make the squad but he's definitely in the running. If they go 18/15, there's going to be a spot more than likely between himself and Earls up for grabs (unless they go with Nash which I'd say is less likely right now).

Clegg

I would have loved to see Jamie Osborne make the World Cup squad. He's the most talented back I've seen come through in a long time. That injury during the Six Nations training camp really derailed his season. Hasn't played since March.

He's young enough that he'll have at least another two World Cup cycles though. Probably three if he remains healthy.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959500#Comment_120959500

I think he's indispensable to our attacking game but we've shown we can win without the all singing all dancing multi phase attack we saw in New Zealand last summer.

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959436#Comment_120959436

La Rochelle didn't think so.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959545#Comment_120959545

But if we’ve shown we can win without him, then surely by definition he’s not indispensable?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959436#Comment_120959436

Again though, Stockdale also has a monster left boot.

The two of them are incredibly similar. They're even both prone to defensive errors!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956729#Comment_120956729

..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959926#Comment_120959926

I think 2018 Stockdale is in the conversation with Hansen and Lowe, not sure he gets ahead of either. He was flying the end of last season and I agree with Buer that he had a very good game at the weekend, the errors stick out more than they should.

Earls is baffling to me, he wouldn't be near an Irish 23 and I don't see him going to France but he's proven everyone wrong countless times so not nailing any colours to any masts.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959197#Comment_120959197

Getting dumped into touch is shocking in a rugby match. Did he do it by himself or were other players involved, you know the sort of thing that goes on in a game, maybe some big guys tackling him. It has almost never happened in the history of Rugby to guys out near the touchline with the ball in hand. I've never seen it in over 60 years of watching the game. Were any other irish players tackled into touch during the game? If so, they must be as bad aas Stockdale. What a plonker he must be......😈

ionadnapokot

He ran across the pitch towards the touchline and into tacklers. Two Irish players outside of him. I think that's the frustrating part. Garbisi man-handled him.

Stockdale just doesn't see the dangers. He only sees opportunities to attack. He's an out and out finisher.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959449#Comment_120959449

We must have decent depth at wing if we were able to leave Baloucoune and Larmour out of a 42 man squad.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958760#Comment_120958760

Some people just refuse to give Stockdale credit no matter what he does...

inbloom427

Don’t agree with this at all. 2018 Stockdale was electric and more influential than Lowe at his very best. He’d walk into the team in that form. Lowe is a better player at present but they are really similar, and I think people are harsh when judging Stockers. Lowe could potentially make a few defensive mistakes in the World Cup and Jacob might perform at Lowe’s level if he got a run. Not a huge difference between them.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960095#Comment_120960095

Jesus this forum has gone to the dogs. He ran sideways across the pitch and was dumped out from 15 metres away, entirely his own fault. Sorry if my criticism has upset you.