Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987712#Comment_120987712

Yea, it makes last week's team look even older tbh. How does Coombes not even get a game on the bench?

Hopefully next season will see Osbourne,. Nash and the rest get another chance

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987584#Comment_120987584

It's not the world cup final.. its an opportunity to have a look at 1 or 2 lads who are on the edge of making the final squad of 33.

almostover

Very disappointed to see Coombes dropped from the squad without even getting a single minute in a warm up game. Had an outstanding 2nd half of the year with Munster and has really added to his game since a poor outing v the Maori last November. Don't think he'd have made the 33 regardless with Doris and Conan ahead of him but it seems very harsh to cut him loose without even giving him a chance. Conan seems to be recovering OK but the backrow is likely where most injuries due to attrition will occurr. Coombes can play 8, 6 and 4, albeit 4 is a push. Weird one.

I'm uncomfortable in general about the backrow selection. Not sure that Prendergast will make it either given Beirne and Baird are good 6s. Why not gives Coombes a go off the bench this weekend? We know what Prendergast can do, he's primarily a 6 and behind POM, Doris, Beirne and Baird for that position.

We're also expecting JvdF to not get injured, only proper no.7 in the squad. We've always looked far worse when POM plays 7. Wasn't convinced by Doris at 7 either, he had a good game but played more as a 6. Hodnett too unproven at this level but again had a stellar 2nd half of the season with Munster.

Anyway hope it all works out either way.....

Brief_Lives

im not surprised, squad was picked after the 6 nations, and the guys in charge get a carte-blanche after 6 nations and NZ results.

suck it up munster fans, and lets see what happens. Go green leinster.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987698#Comment_120987698

But surely IF the IRFU are thinking of signing him they must feel he's the right man and that his media duties/interactions can be curtailed just like Nucifora's was.

Like we don't hear or see too much from the CEO either

Irish Rugby seem to have a way of just getting on with the job and leave media stuff to the team coaches and provincial coaches.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987419#Comment_120987419

Most disappointed for Coombes out of that quintet. He's had some brilliant performances over the last 2 years, and especially so since November after Munster's poor start to the season.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988263#Comment_120988263

I don't for a second think they are thinking of signing him or have ever considered him. The man is incapable of staying away from the media or controversy.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988158#Comment_120988158

I think the coaches are making far fewer decisions based on the warm up games then we think. I'd say most decisions were made before the squad was announced and lot more in training.

I am quite surprised though, was convinced he would get a run out this weekend.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987602#Comment_120987602

He is 27 and lock is a position where players can really improve later in their career. Treadwell could have an indian summer to his career.

Look at Kleyn who had the best season of his career and is now a Springbok.

Sure some locks come through young and Ireland have a group for the future (Baird, McCarthy, Ahern, Edogbo and the Murray brothers) but Treadwell could make it back.

Pudsy33

Prendergast starting at 8 on Saturday, now that's interesting.

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988374#Comment_120988374

I hope that's a joke. If that's true, we are looking at a 19:14 split for sure

Apparently Coombes has been called into the South African squad.

kuang1

I thought in a press conference before the Italy game it was stated (by farrell or easterby, can't remember which) that all 43 players would be getting some game time over the 3 warm ups.

No chance these guys get called back next week I guess? Wouldn't make any sense.

So looks like we were told a porkie!

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988463#Comment_120988463

i heard that too but i think they said afterward that it wasnt actually guaranteed

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988463#Comment_120988463

Farrell explicitly stated after the Italy game that not every player was guaranteed game time in the remaining two games.

Didn't expect the cull to happen at this point but I did expect guys like Blade and Nash to be out.

Wegians89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988374#Comment_120988374

He was very good there for Connacht towards the end of the season. I get Munster fans probably haven’t seen much of him and Coombes has a great highlight reel and will naturally be biased against him. Prendergast reminds me a lot of POM but with more size and better hands, probably less manic aggression and leadership attributes. It’s the unseen work these lads do that get them ahead of the likes of Coombes.

Bogwoppit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987712#Comment_120987712

Osbourne was ruled out with a knee injury quite a while ago but was kept in camp for training

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988635#Comment_120988635

Based on my own flawed eye test and the extremely limited URC stats, O’Mahony and Coombes are both far superior passers than Prendergast. It’s certainly not a lack of playmaking ability that is hurting Coombes if you watch Munster that should be clear, I’d imagine, based off the fact that Farrell keeps calling him into squads but never plays him, it’s because Farrell only see’s him as an 8 and prefers Dorris and Conan.

leakyboots

Baffled and a bit disappointed that Coombes has been dropped. Find it hard to believe we haven't found a place for him to at least have a look at him in action - he wasn't long back from injury in that game where he played (poorly) last Autumn, he has a significant body of work before and after that at club level that I thought would have warranted a look at him again.

Wrong call for me, but who knows what Farrell has planned. Maybe he'll get a call again in the last warmup.

fitz

Suspect it's that Farrell believes he's got sufficient cover for the positions Coombes can play. Either that or he's just not doing it in training camp, but I suspect it's more the former.

KrustyUCC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988635#Comment_120988635

Prendergast last match against the Stormers he has a whopping 4 metres gained from 9 carries with 7 passes and 4 tackles

v Ulster 15 metres gained from 9 carries 9 passes 7 tackles 1 turnover

v Glasgow 6 metres 3 carries 1 pass 12 tackles 1 try in 40 mins

Not exactly very good as a 8

Still need stats for stormers match

Coombes v leinster

GAVIN COOMBES

M: 42 C: 20 P: 5 T: 17 TO: 1

Coombes v glasgow (limited stats)

44 metres made 18 tackles 4 completed passss

Newho doesn't really matter as Farrell & Co prefer Prendergast to Coombes

whatawaster

How do we think Ireland will look to manage the squad as the world cup progresses?

We have Romania first up, then a 1 week break until Tonga

Then a 1 week break until SA

Then a 2 week break until Scotland

1 week breaks thereafter

The 2-week break after the SA game is ideal, and will hopefully allow us to go full-strength in both and still be well rested.

I would imagine we will go largely 2nd string vs Romania (plus Sexton)

Then a strong team v Tonga, with maybe only a couple of deviations from our first choice 15.

Then we go full strength from there until the bitter end.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989273#Comment_120989273

I think they prefer Baird to Coombes, mostly due to the fact that they already have 2 players covering 8 in Conan and Doris who would be expected to last the full game if selected to start, so bench cover is needed primarily for 6 and 7

The starting back row for Ireland is in any of the must win games is

POM, VDF, Doris at 6 7 and 8

That only changes if there are injuries to any of those players

If Doris is injured, Conan goes to 8

If POM is injured, Doris goes to 6, Conan goes to 8

If VDF is injured, Doris goes to 7, Conan to 8 and Baird goes to 6

If VDF and Doris are both injured, Baird starts at 6, POM at 7 and Conan at 8 with Prendergast replacing POM at 7 later in the game

Coombes is primarily a big powerful 8 who can cover 6 and 4. Ireland's first choice 6 is POM who is unlikely to play the full 80 mins in any game, so we'll always need 6 cover on the bench while any of Doris, Baird, Josh VDF, Prendergast, Conan would be expected to able to play the full 80 even if they need to be re-deployed to cover other positions mid game.

Baird is primarily a 6 who can cover 4 and Prendergast is primarily a 6 who can cover 8 (and has played at 7 for about 5 minutes)

He's gambling that Doris and Conan both stay fit because when Conan is fit, he's only ever playing at 8, and then Doris goes to 6 for any of the must win games

If Conan is injured, it's Doris at 8 and then Baird/Prendergast plays 6

I think Coombes will see some time at the RWC as cover for an injury that we will inevitably pick up somewhere in the back row or 2nd row. We are stacked at cover at 6 now, and while most back rows 'can' play at 8, none of the options would be as good as Coombes who is absolutely within the top 3 8s in Ireland right now

What's so special about the number 8? Well, 8 and the scrum half, are the only 2 players allowed to pick up the ball from the scrum. This could be important for 3 reasons.

1. If we need to attack the line from scrum possession, players like Coombes are a nightmare to defend against off the back if a scrum 5 metres out
2. If our scrum is being disrupted, the scrum half may not be able to able to get the ball out quickly, or cleanly, so we need a strong 8 to be able to rescue the ball and protect it in contact
3. If we're defending a scrum from 5 metres from our own line. A powerful 8 can pick up the ball and carry it forward, making the metres required to give the scrum half or out half the space to clear our lines

In the Irish set-up, the number 8 is used as a loose forward on the wide channels. There are people out there who think Coombes cannot do this role, that's usually because they haven't watched him play enough. Coombes offloads more than most other forwards, he is also quick and has great passing off both sides and is excellent in the lineout and maul on both sides of the maul.

The only reason I can think of, why he's not being given a chance to play, is that he doesn't fit in with Andy's rock paper scissors calculations about numbering up for squad selections in the 33 man squad.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990084#Comment_120990084

If VDF is injured, Doris goes to 7, Conan to 8 and Baird goes to 6

Why is POM dropped if VDF injured? Other than that a really good post

mun1

The only way Coombes was going was instead of conan . Conan is obviously fit to go , and based on Conans appearances during the 6N, rightly so.

Coombes is and will always be a key player for munster , but happens to be behind Doris and Conan in ireland selections at this stage of his career.

prendergast is a different player to Coombes and can play across all back 5 positions at international level (v tier 2 teams), so naturally is a more flexible option at this stage.

As a munster supporter, i think Coombes is Fantastic within 5m of the line but still not athletic enough in D.

Id trust in AF’s choices at this stage , based on where he has brought us after the Schmit reign.

Dubinusa

Coombes obviously isn't impressing in training. My guess is Faz prefers athletic types over brawny types.

I hope Loughman gets into the squad this week and has a blinder.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1692158608564175331?t=E-o1HJFGg4DPIduc3pD8cA&s=19

Strong team

Shehal

This has the feel of a game where either England are galvanised with all the off field stuff this week and give Ireland a tough game, or they get absolutely pummelled. I am ofcourse confident but this is probably the only game this warm up where I do enter the game with some reservations. I am also really excited to see how Prendergast goes at 8.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990620#Comment_120990620

With the exception of Prendergast ahead of Doris that is pretty much the strongest possible starting 15.

Very interesting to see how he goes at 8.

kuang1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990049#Comment_120990049

If we win our first 3 games, then we could (Farrell might not of course) rest some key players against Scotland in order to be fresh for the QF.

Someone posted here about how previous world cup winners all had a soft final group game. I don't think it's ideal (having?) to be going full pelt against Scotland. To expect to do that for a further 3 consecutive weeks successfully is a big, big ask.

Ideal world we win our first 3 games, we put out a mix of second and first string players against Scotland in a game we don't have to win (but still should win in this scenario imo), and we've a reasonably fresh first choice team to play the QF and beyond.

Optimism anyone? I've plenty here 😂