Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Buer

Different players require different approaches and that applies to bringing guys who are carrying a knock too. In 2019, we brought an injured Joey Carbery. He shouldn't have gone. It was a bad injury and he had to be carried from the field. In normal circumstances, I'd imagine he would have been out for several months. He was the second choice outhalf who was never, barring injury, going to be starting an important match.

Sheehan is a very different scenario. The injury appears to be genuinely touch and go as to whether he'll be out for anything from 4-8 weeks.

He's one of very few Irish players who have a legitimate claim on being the best in the world in their position. He's a genuine game breaker probably more than any Irish player; a genuine difference maker to the Irish team in a tight game. He has started 23 Leinster games and somehow has scored 28 tries. Even if we throw in his sub appearances and look at it in terms of minutes, he still has a try every 77 minutes played. Embarrassingly for him, that drops to a try every 215 minutes in green which is behind only Hansen and Lowe only in our starting team. And it's not like he's a one trick pony. He's probably our best thrower. He's extremely mobile around the field for his size and is able to get over the ball at the breakdown. He's one of the most physical tacklers we have also.

If the coaches can say, with confidence, he's going to be available to play 30 minutes against Scotland and then play in the QF, he should be in the squad. We can manage our way through the opening two games without too much trouble. If one of the others gets injured, then we call someone up to make the 90 minute flight to Paris.

Sheehan isn't Conan or Kilcoyne. If he's able to feature in the pool stages at all and we want to have our best chance possible of toppling a QF opponent, he goes over.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016731#Comment_121016731

100%. Thank you. Can't be better said.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016731#Comment_121016731

Nail. Head.

mun1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016731#Comment_121016731

Id agree with that. If we can be sure he’s going to be match fit for the Scotland match at a minimum , then he should go.

connachta

Where's Burkie to say we're all in "delusion" as we point 6 weeks and Scotland, even on the bench, as enough to have him in the 33?

Oh yeah I forgot we're just "fans" and no way coach would take the risk.

Anyway Dan may be available earlier and for the better

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016959#Comment_121016959

You obviously didn't read what i said you fool

I dont believe Sheehan should be in the 33 unless he is absolutely certain to be available for the SA game at a minimum. There is too many risks attached to this.

Aki was sent off v Samoa in 2019 and we were not allowed replace him. All it takes is one tackle from the wrong player in one of the first two games and we have a dilemma of sending Sheehan home if he still isn't fit or else have Healy as back up hooker v the boks.

I think you are delusional if you think this hasn't been considered by the coaches. We hear them all the time naming a 23 and wanting a bench to cover as many eventualities as possible in any given game.

There is still no official word on Sheehan recovery time lines, just rumours.

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121016377#Comment_121016377

U don’t know much about SA rugby if u don’t understand why Marx starts from the bench

Clegg

Jesus Christ, Bundee.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1694317219524563418?t=U67EpwjfjOf4a8ZZVSGsDA&s=09

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014811#Comment_121014811

Nice attempt at being pedantic there.

Laws oversee the matches themselves but I'm pretty confident that the structure of tournaments are rules and regulations.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014559#Comment_121014559

Thanks, that is exactly what I'd been able to find also. No reference to a severity of an injury or that the injury has to independently assessed by another doctor, unlike what other posters have claimed.

Who cares what it looks like? You dont get an award for being the best boys in class - the only thing that matters is winning. There's the 'dark arts' on the pitch and 'dark arts' off it. If there is no threshold for how long an injury must keep a player out then it doesnt matter if they are playing golf at a later stage.

Again, no one is asking anyone to falsify a medical report or sacrifice any career. Trying to link this to bloodgate is incredibly hyperbolic.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017076#Comment_121017076

Most here think as I am it's enough if he's back for Scotland (not South-Africa), and you scornful tune then vanishes from all your leaned certainties.

That's all I said and no more comments on that.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015337#Comment_121015337

That's not unusual.

JOB does a scrum half session occasionally at Leinster.

If JGP is at the bottom of a ruck it's not unusual JOB to stand as a scrumhalf.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017136#Comment_121017136

Can you point to any previous instance at a RWC where a team was accused to gaming the system with an "injured" player?

I reckon every replacement ever made has been legitimate and don't see international teams starting to game the system on this now

It requires medical sign off and I don't see a medical professional over stating a players injury. That would be falsifying a report.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017217#Comment_121017217

Good for JOB

Good for Prendergast

Good for Earls

Not good if Murray starts any game

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017266#Comment_121017266

I think the media talking about job at sh saw him train there and added 2+2 and got 5 but I expect to see him train there and be a break glass 4th choice.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017299#Comment_121017299

Why for? A 4th SH (Blade) can be called within 72h...

Only reason would be both JGP and the n°21 get injured in the same game... Which could happen.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014496#Comment_121014496

The mindset you're talking about is pure amateur or fan imagination about what happens in squads. Same sort of nonsense we hear when players from certain provinces don't get picked for extended squads and how it will split a dressing room.

Team sports at the very top level is about doing whatever it is for the unit to succeed, even if it impacts an individual. That is the mindset that is required to win and what you see from top sides. Once a team is winning there will be no issue with the changing room.

Look at SA. They dropped in a player at the last minute before the WC, who had previously turned his back on SA and got caps in another country and ended up keeping out a player who had been within the setup for a considerable time. In Ireland, as fans we'd be hand ringing about that splitting the dressing room. They are also near guaranteed to do exactly what I am proposing regarding moving players into the squad who were originally left out and again the world wont end.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017311#Comment_121017311

Or the 9 gets binned

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017251#Comment_121017251

Again, you aren't able to point to any official threshold for a players injury that is required to be removed from the squad so you keep making up falsifying things.

Are you saying that every injury ever in the world cup was always so severe that the player had zero chance of making the final?

To me it is naive to think that every decision to keep a player in the squad is 100% based on the severity of the injury and nothing to do with the quality of the player involved. Even the talk of Sheehan is to potentially bring an injured player, where I'd doubt Herring would get that sort of treatment.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017299#Comment_121017299

The media have been stalking boards and liked my idea so much they are pushing to make it a reality 😉

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017413#Comment_121017413

Again you are assuming players/coaches would do that or want to be seen to do that for players not injured

For a player to be removed from a squad especially medical reasons it required medical sign off. what doc would do that knowing player is fit to return earleir than what thwy would be putting on paper? No medic would put in any artificial date/untrue date. the ethics around that, for me, make it a complete non runner

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017581#Comment_121017581

the plot just would need the province agreement not to play the guy until the date, and the medic to be just a little pessimistic about a knock/sprain

whatever the 33 are picked as the best won't be sent home easily, no debate

typhoony

SA would pull a stunt like this without blinking an eye, anything to get them to the end goal by bending the rules, look how we got screwed over when we tried to host this tournament after that I decided we need to win it at pretty much all costs

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017076#Comment_121017076

you fool

Mod: You can make your point without personal abuse.

Podge_irl

The obvious counterpoint to the "injury" is whether there have ever been noises about tomfoolery around this in the past and I can't say I remember any.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017103#Comment_121017103

Bundee is in great nick, you could see it from the England game - he was relishing contact and never ran out of gas. The most positive aspect of his performance was his support play, distribution and breakdown contribution but he'll play a big role this world cup, I've no doubt.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017364#Comment_121017364

Only amateur teams can end up with split dressing rooms or turn against their coaches? It's never happened in a professional sporting environment? Really? You honestly believe that? You're very naive.

Would South Africa or more specifically, Rassie, do something like this. Yeah probably. Is he someone I'd like my teams to emulate? **** no.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017077#Comment_121017077

Maybe you could explain why (you think) Marx starts from the bench rather than just asserting your superior SA rugby knowledge in future?

That would seem more instructive to me.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017364#Comment_121017364

Same sort of nonsense we hear when players from certain provinces don't get picked for extended squads and how it will split a dressing room.

Aside from everything else in your post, for all the disagreements with the extended squad selection on here, I didn’t see a single post suggest it’d split the dressing room.

Not one.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017581#Comment_121017581

Does the player have to be declared unfit until the date of the final or can missing the group stages be enough reason?