Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017581#Comment_121017581

Despite asking repeatedly, you and others still have not been able to show me any evidence of this threshold for an injury that you all keep claiming that a doctor will have to lie about.

Everything I can find and that has been posted on the thread just identifies an certified injury - with one link being slightly more specific but still incredibly vague using the term 'typically long-term'.

Continuing to focus on this element also completely ignores the incredibly high likelihood that at least one player will unfortunately pick up a severe enough injury to keep them out.

We're going deeper and deeper down the 'what-if' scenarios where we'd need a 3rd SH that I'm not surprised some aren't advocating we should be bringing 4 SHs.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017857#Comment_121017857

It has definitely been said how upset players of a certain province must feel for unfairly not being selected.

If posters are now claiming one player in the squad potentially being seen by some as being treated unfairly would split a dressing room, how can players from an entire province feeling they and their teammates are being treated unfairly not impact a dressing room?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017982#Comment_121017982

Then why have no teams done as you have said for previous world cups if the threshold isnt as high as you think it is.

Its a limited squad number. when you had 30 or 31 places in the squad you could make argument for 2 scrumhalves but when you have 33 places it doesnt make any sense to not have 3 players capable of playing a key position like scrum half and hooker

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018014#Comment_121018014

Because a normal selection process, and what you’re suggesting, are not the same thing.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017817#Comment_121017817

Maybe reread my post, I said amateur mindset.

No arguments that many pros don't also have a similar mindset, which is why many who are gifted physically never make it to the top. Also why certain teams are resilient and others continuously fall apart once they face on adversity.

I'm extremely confident many teams with depth going into the WC will be moving out players with injuries this WC. Sides won't be keeping around fringe players who get knocks during the pool matches. We'll see 3rd string locks be switched out where they wouldn't be doing so if it was their star OH - which has always been the case.

Rugby is all about bending laws, so please don't give me some holier than thou speech pointing at bad man Rassie (who I am no fan of). We celebrate when our players use their smarts to get a penalty or avoid being penalised even though technically they were in the wrong. There are of course red lines but this isn't close to being one.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018061#Comment_121018061

Then show that happening in the past. if you say what youre suggesting is a professional minded approach then show from previous world cups where countries have done as you suggest?

It doesnt happen.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017982#Comment_121017982

The tournament organiser has to authorize the medical submission. I would say the medical submission may contain xray/scan if necessary.

Ar a guess I reckon if WR suspected there was an attempt to game the system they would seek further documentation of an injury.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018046#Comment_121018046

We have no idea if a team has done it or not in the past.

I doubt a fringe player is ever going to come out and publicly slam their coaches for sending him home for an injury that he believed wasn't going to rule him out of the whole competition.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018137#Comment_121018137

Social media these days

Media speculation

We have independent doctors at games so presumably WR have a medical panel RWC to assess any application to replace a player.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018057#Comment_121018057

A player being unfairly treated is a player being unfairly treated.

Players not being included or excluded from squads based on injury concerns is completely normal and is done regularly, even in most matches.

Posters just over and over again continue to build the same strawman that I am proposing to send home a completely healthy player.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017077#Comment_121017077

Marx is overrated, shoot me. He starts from the bench because they don't trust his basics

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018130#Comment_121018130

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018147#Comment_121018147

So still absolutely zero threshold for how significant an injury needs to be to allow for a replacement.

I also still can't how this imagined threshold could possibly be viable.

How many weeks injury could they possibly have set? If an injury has to be tournament ending in nature, what happens if two of your hookers get 3 week injuries?

You're continuing to imagine rules that there is zero evidence that exist to argue a scenario that is pretty unlikely.

We're so far down the what-if hole that we're only strengthening my opinion (though I still don't believe Ireland will do it, despite other teams already taking the plunge).

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018148#Comment_121018148

You can claim strawman, but for a part of this conversation, you had used the phrase

injured or “injured” player.

There was no straw man at that point. At least you had the good sense to row back from that.

But if you insist on talking about strawmen, I’m still waiting for you to provide a single post from someone claiming non-selection for the extended squad will “split the dressing room”.

pickarooney

I'd put money on Handre Pollard being involved with SA before the end of the pool stages at the latest but probably by September 1st, at the expense of one of the 4 scrum halves. Grant Williams could see some complications from his head injury against Argentina and nobody could object to that by saying he's fit to play.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018227#Comment_121018227

I used shorthand in that post and as soon as a poster misinterpreted it up I clarified my position straight away. Every other post before and after I have been clear in what I am proposing, as painful as it has been to have to repeat myself over and over again.

It is absolutely strawman building for posters to continue to make arguments against a post that was misinterpreted, clarified a day ago and repeatedly since.

I gave you an example, you just don't like it. The posters who have claimed players from a province feel that they are being treated unfairly is saying a dressing room is split. There is no way a dressing room isnt split in the scenario they are creating.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018637#Comment_121018637

I gave you an example, you just don't like it

You literally didn't. You gave me an example of something else you've inferred from what posters were saying. That (again) is not the same thing.

An actual example, would be a post of someone actually saying exactly what you're claiming. You won't be able to find one.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018727#Comment_121018727

Oh great, we're back to you demanding I magic up functionality that this site doesn't have to search for posts.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018863#Comment_121018863

There's only one of us "magic-ing up" anything here.... will leave it at that.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018897#Comment_121018897

As a mod you might have additional search functionality but for us salt of the earth users there is no way for us to search for posts from months ago.

Given that you tried to pull this on me before I am very confident you are well aware of that limitation so it is incredibly weak to try again to point score by demanding others find historic posts.

Glad you're leaving it there. Even though we're clearly stuck for topics if we've spent 2 days discussing the merits of 2 vs 3 SHs in a squad, I am not sure why you were trying so hard to derail the conversation by pushing for us to relitigate in depth that other complete provincial mess of a conversation.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018942#Comment_121018942

The search functionality is terrible.

What you’re claiming is not true.

Both those things can be (and are) true.

Your post seemed to suggest it was a fairly common occurrence. If it was, you’d be able to find even a single post saying what you claimed.

Dubinusa

Oi! Delighted to see posters in full bloom! Can't wait til the rwc begins!

Wegians89

Has there been any of the usual predicted teams for this weekend?

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017624#Comment_121017624

How did u get screwed over for the WC?ur bid was a joke.bending the rules,u not know much do u

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017851#Comment_121017851

Maybe OP can get more understanding of SA rugby before making comments about why players start and some coke off the bench.it’s the same reason kitshoff comes off the bench too when he is the superior prop to ox.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019607#Comment_121019607

…which is?? You still haven’t told us.

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019618#Comment_121019618

Well if it must be said it’s because of transformation and what Sa rugby and rassie has to do to keep the goverment happy.it’s a subject I don’t want to get into.the fact is transformation is a must for any Sa coach

ionadnapokot

Sheehan update: Hypothetically IF it was 4 weeks / GT in IT

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There’s increasing if cautious optimism emanating from the Irish camp that Dan Sheehan’s estimated recovery time from the foot injury he sustained in last Saturday’s win over England will not rule him out of Ireland's initial 33-man RWC squad to be announced at lunchtime on Monday.

Andy Farrell is likely to give an update on the hooker’s wellbeing after announcing the Irish line-up for their final warm-up game against Samoa on Saturday in Bayonne (kick-off 8.45pm local time/7.45pm Irish) this afternoon.

Admittedly, it’s a bit of a concern that Farrell has all but ruled out Ronan Kelleher (hamstring) in addition to Sheehan, Jack Conan and David Kilcoyne, none of whom travelled with the rest of the squad last Sunday to Biarritz.

But Farrell did specifically say that they should be fine for the start of the pool stages, in which case it would be worth taking a gamble on both Sheehan and Kelleher, in addition to Rob Herring.

That's the first I've heard of Kelleher having a dodgy hammy. Have I been living under a rock?

ionadnapokot

Yes!

& him only recovering from one last season

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019636#Comment_121019636

Scratch the surface and the poster slowly but surely reveals his true self.

Only time to the inevitable. Tick tock.