Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032760#Comment_121032760

The gap may have narrowed (I'm eternally unconvinced by Scotland) but the gap was a fairly comfortable 15 win away to Scotland while suffering a catastrophic set of injuries mid-game.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032884#Comment_121032884

The same as England always seem to up their game against us, Scotland always seem to completely fall apart against us.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032884#Comment_121032884

before the summer I would agree 100%. - now, not so much , we should certainly win , but it seams a lot tougher fixture now than it did last winter - probably be a winner takes all fixture with loser going home - adding that WC pressure , then again hopefully Johnny is back

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032760#Comment_121032760

Has it? They were losing 0-6 to Georgia at half time yesterday.

We keep hearing about how Scotland are a threat or are not to be underestimated. In the 6Ns they were apparently in with a shot of winning it and a real danger team for Ireland. Then we went over there, conceded the first try, lost a group of guys to injury, had a prop at hooker and a 7 throwing into the line out. And in the end we had opportunities to get the TBP in those last 10-15 that would have put us 20+ points up. Personally I was disappointed that we didn’t get that 4th try as I think we deserved it on the day.

Its so hard to take the “Scotland have turned a corner” narrative seriously, because how many times have we heard it before? And how many times has it proven to be true?

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032760#Comment_121032760

Samoa were a step up from england. You don't take chances in world cup pool stages. Tonga are notorious for taking scalps at WCs.

Sangre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032953#Comment_121032953

I honestly think Scotland are more likely to beat SA than us. SA aren’t as used to these players and may let Scotland dictate tempo. Unlikely but I think more likely than beating us.

I heard this exact same argument before last RWC prior to us hammering Scotland in the pools.

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032953#Comment_121032953

Ireland were 10-7 down to Samoa at half time?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032964#Comment_121032964

They are? They won 1 game in 2019 against the US. They won 1 game in 2015 against Namibia. They won 2 games in 2011 against Japan and France. They won 2 games in 2007 against the US and Samoa. They lost all of their games in 2003.

So they have 1 “scalp” in 20 years. That was a French side that was in all sorts of disarray and ended up revolting against their head coach 12 years ago.

It would be nice if we could stay grounded in reality here.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032968#Comment_121032968

Scotland have beaten SA once in the last 20 years. I just don’t see it at all tbh.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032972#Comment_121032972

It may be news, but Samoa are a better team than Georgia. And Scotland were at home. And Scotland were close to full strength. And Georgia didn’t get a jammy intercept try.

Sangre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032991#Comment_121032991

It’s a 0.1% chance vs 0.15%

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032964#Comment_121032964

Samoa are not better than England despite yesterday, you do have to rest players in certain games during a WC , thats why a squad is important , especially so in a physical test against Tonga , where I would rest the likes of Keenan, Ringrose and Dorris.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032870#Comment_121032870

Frisch has proven his ability to play 13 to a very high standard at club level (not int level I know). A full season at 13 plus having played there many times before is a lot more experience than JOB. JOB is also covering several other positions (all back three spots plus possibly emergency SH), if he had to play 13, we'd be short elsewhere. I seriously doubt JOB will play 13 against Tonga as he is likely to be in the back three.

Henshaw moving out to 13 is the most likely scenario should Ringrose be unavailable given the selections for the warm up games, rather than JOB going there. That obviously impacts 12 as well which is not desirable.

Just making the point that Henshaw's form at 13 and lack of gametime at 12 is a concern (maybe his form would also have been poor at 12 but we don't know). A second 13 (could have been James Hume if you'd prefer) with the squad could have allowed Henshaw gametime at 12 and allowed someone else to stake a claim for backup 13. As it is, Henshaw is probably considered our starting 12 and reserve 13 despite playing poorly (albeit mostly in the position we hope he wont have to play in). Having 3 x 12s and 1 x 13 in the squad isn't ideal, even if they are or four best centres.

Akrasia

Andy Farrell told the players Before the game yesterday whether they were on the 33 man squad.

Seems madness and needlessly cruel. I can't see any benefit from doing it that way and it surely had some impact on spme of the players performances yesterday..

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033092#Comment_121033092

Farrell does not strike me as someone who is cruel - and telling players beforehand doesnt strike me as cruel - bad news is horrible however or when you are told, from personal experience it is horrible being dropped when close - also many of the players who are certainly on the plane were poor yesterday - Beirne , Van Der Flier Henshaw, Henderson.

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033092#Comment_121033092

Source?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033241#Comment_121033241

The 42 post match pod

Iamabeliever

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033040#Comment_121033040

Why are you bringing up players who aren't remotely close to the squad. Robbie is our second choice specialist 13 and from my point of view a centre combo of AKI/Henshaw is our best going into the big QF

Not taking a dig at Ringrose.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930896#Comment_120930896

Some of us called it back then. the final game would be for using players in the final squad...

(I think that would have included Earls, Stewart was there because of Sheahan & Kelleher)

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033253#Comment_121033253

I was making a point about a position in the squad where we lack depth. Not only is the second choice for that position first choice in another position, he also played poorly in this position last night. I'm saying the make up of the squad could have negated this situation.

Maybe another 13 would have played poorly but it would have been worth seeing if another 13 could justify a place at the WC instead of McCloskey who realistically needs two injured players before he'd be considered for a big game.

Henshaw has been almost exclusively a 12 for a long time now. His limited time at 13 has been mainly due to lack of alternatives.

I think Ringrose is our most irreplaceable player now, without him I don't think we will beat the top teams. Obviously you could say the same about several other players but they have reasonable replacements (albeit of a lower standard). I certainly wouldn't fancy a centre combo of Aki + Henshaw, and certainly not if Ringrose is available. Henshaw/Aki/McCloskey + Ringrose would be better.

Dubinusa

We do have weaknesses in depth in certain positions. But every other team does. We'll be relying on Porter for a massive showing. Then there's Kelleher and Sheehan. Without them healthy, we're in a bad way. Sexton will hopefully come in strong. He'll be 38! We need him to do his thing for a month.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033092#Comment_121033092

There is no pleasant way of telling players ,who know well they are close to the cut-line, that they have not in fact made it.

If he did sit them down yesterday, thats not cruel, it is in fact only fair, given that everyone knows that the announcement had been moved up to Sunday.

Besides, its not black and white. There will be a good 7 or 8 players who will be on active standby in Ireland, training fully with a structure hot wired to Farrell in France, players like Stewart and Prendergast and Frawley.

Those players can't afford to look at this as an opportunity missed, on the contrary, some of them weren't even in Ireland reckoning 12 months ago and yet here they are, just a bad tackle away from a game in front of 70,000 at a World Cup.

I think one thing anyone who has observed Farrell in his tenure can say, is that he runs a good ship, with mutual respect and a good work ethic but with a family ethos and a balance of hard training and family time. What he is not, is needlessly cruel, but he needs to be straight with all his squad when the time comes.

molloyjh

It is a little odd to announce it the day of a game. But then who in the 23 would have been impacted? By my reckoning Stewart, Stockdale and Loughman were all in the 23 but not likely in the RWC squad. And at least 2 of those would have known that going in. The only one who really had a shot (barring injury) was Stockdale and I don’t think his performance suffered for it. His second half was decent with some good involvements. I’m not sure it really was too big a deal to announce to the squad when they did tbh.

Shehal

The most important thing to realise from the warm ups as they mean literally nothing and reading too much into them is immaterial. SA and Scotland are the new shiny bright object people are gushing over but in reality Ireland are still be best side in the pool and should win it.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033413#Comment_121033413

The only reason that henshaw doesn't start 13 for leinster and Ireland is because of ringrose. He is the second best 13 in Ireland.

He is a starting lions 13.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033500#Comment_121033500

Depending on Healy's injury, Loughman has a chance. Calf injuries are brutal. Furlong has been suffering from these in the past.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033253#Comment_121033253

Why do you think that?

Regardless, unlike both Aki and Henshaw, Ringrose has never not started a proper test when fit so you won't see that absent injuries.

tmc1963

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032888#Comment_121032888

The gap has narrowed significantly since the 6N IMO - Scotland have improved further while Ireland have not - and may even have regressed a little.

It is easy to use recent 'evidence' and Ireland have clearly had Scotland's number for years .....however things change and the change is only usually obvious much later - a couple of simple examples:

1. England were RWC finalists 4 years ago having comfortably beaten the ABs - who could have foreseen their horrendous decline since then?
2. More topically, Scotland never lost to Ireland in the 1990's winning 10 and drawing once. Ireland then began to steadily improve and have continued that improvement to eventually reach number one, while Scotland regressed. However Scotland have been gradually improving for years (notwithstanding having to rethink the all-out attack strategy that was exposed in Japan). Nobody knows yet where that steady improvement will end - for the avoidance of doubt, number one seems highly unlikely, but Scotland could certainly beat Ireland in a few weeks!

pickarooney

Loughman is 90% likely to see game time in the WC, between Healy and Kilcoyne's injuries and the likelihood of recurrence if them.

If I was Milne I'd be keeping myself fit as well.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033688#Comment_121033688

The gap has narrowed significantly since the 6N IMO - Scotland have improved further while Ireland have not - and may even have regressed a little.

What's this based on? From what I've seen of Scotland they've had very good periods. Mixed with very mediocore periods. The exact same as during the six nations.

Its weird, if you read foreign pundits they've been impressed by Ireland while knowing their holding back.

Ireland easily beat italy, took care of England in second gear and then apparently struggled against Samoa.

If you read some irish fans then we might as well not even bother going to the world Cup.