Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

irishleeds

What do we think the team will look like for Romania. Hard game to gauge, trying to play combinations for the bigger games. I would like to see something like the following:

1. Porter
2. Herring
3. Furlong
4. Beirne
5. McCarthy
6. Baird
7. VdF
8. Doris
9. Casey
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14. Hansen
15. Keenan

Bench:

1. Kelleher
2. Loughman
3. Bealham
4. Henderson
5. POM
6. Gibson-Park
7. Crowley
8. Aki

Buer

Well, the last two pages were equal parts entertaining and shitshow.

Anyway, I think the vast majority of our team is largely nailed down at this point. The only real competition for spots is on the bench now, realistically. But I reckon that, come the SA game, there could be multiple changes to what would have been the expected bench a week ago (Kelleher, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, Conan, Murray, Henshaw).

Realistically, there will probably be only a couple of changes but that could be any two from five or six of those listed.

At this point, I think Herring should be in the 16 jersey unless Kelleher really comes out of the blocks in France. Herring was the best player on the pitch and a big part of turning the game against Samoa. His calmness and efficiency was night and day with what we had seen in the opening 50 minutes. He has a habit of scoring some very big tries for us at this stage and the maul seems to be far more structured and accurate with him at the tail.

Back up loosehead is more than likely going to be Kilcoyne. Loughman only getting a short stint off the bench against England doesn't suggest he's in pole position there. And the scrum did not go particularly well with him on the field against either England or Samoa. Healy is an understated loss for a number of reasons but scrummaging is the most significant. I'd be far more comfortable with him coming on for the last 10-15 minutes against SA than either of the two existing options. He's our best loosehead scrummager (and potentially our third best tighthead scrummager). I'd expect Kilcoyne to be at 17 but to get less than 10 minutes against Scotland or SA.

Bealham has the back up spot locked down but I'd have hoped for him to press home his claims of a starting spot a bit more aggressively. He has been ok in the warm ups, nothing more. TOT has been as good. Bealham was really energetic against England but also conceded a scrum penalty and was caught shooting up in defence leading to big hole and line break in his short spell. Still the obvious choice but, after the 6N, I'd have been happy with Furlong in the 18 jersey if Bealham maintained that level.

Back up lock is an interesting one. Henderson was excellent against Italy I thought. But he was far less impressive against Samoa. There was a real lack of cohesion in the front five and I'd say he'll be hurting from the line out performance given he was calling it for his young colleague in Stewart. He broke his bollox chasing back for the intercept try so I don't think it was a lack of effort. He's probably still going to be in the 19 jersey but I think McCarthy has put real pressure on him here and is more in the mould of an impact player. I reckon there's a big of daylight creeping in and that spot isn't fully locked down yet. Baird will also be mentioned but I don't think they'd trust him as a lock replacement against SA nor should they.

Conan is the obvious 20 option. Given his performances off the bench for Ireland in the 6N and how he went in his 30 minutes against Italy, I don't think he's under any real threat here despite Baird's showings this year overall.

I think Murray has the 21 jersey nailed down for his calmness and defensive ability. Casey offers more certainly around the park but I just don't see taking that risk. Murray's warm ups have been a mixed bag. I think his MOTM award was as much about being less conspicuous in his errors as much as anything (which is an achievement in those conditions) but I thought his general passing and clearing of the ball was fairly mediocre. The try showed great awareness and smarts though which is what will be needed.

Back up outhalf should be Billy Burns or Jack Carty.

23 jersey is probably going to be Henshaw at this point although he scarcely deserves it based on his warm ups. I expect he'll get a start alongside Ringrose against Romania or Tonga to get him some form but that shouldn't change the starting line up where Aki is comfortably in the starting slot right now.

kita99

Is Aer Lingus a sponcer of Leinster?

@Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054548#Comment_121054548

On Henshaw, I was watching the highlight reel of tries we've scored since the last world cup that @Clegg posted, Henshaw is bigger but he's lost some athleticism. He, Beirne and Furlong I hope are just minding themselves in the long grass before things properly kick off in France.

On the second row, Ryan has bulked up massively in 4 years and Henderson has played very little for Ireland this cycle. Our second row options are interesting though and we've a nice bit of balance there.

I think Beirne - Ryan is clear first choice. Ryan is our most technically proficient enforcer at the breakdown, he's become quite integral to this aspect of our game and it's noticeable when he isn't on the pitch. Whatever about McCarthy's power - if he could develop his rucking game anywhere near to Ryan's standard he'd become incredibly useful for us. Henderson more a like for like replacement for Beirne but no where near the same jackle threat and not quite the same work rate when Beirne is on top form. I would have said that Henderson's tight carrying game and his set piece were better than Beirne but at this point I think Henderson probably brings a bit more to the scrum but not sure beyond that. He's had a patchy warm up but I'm glad he's fit for the RWC, incredibly classy player and a leader within the squad.

I think when McCarthy gets more experience, a little more consistency and if he rounds out his set piece game (whilst keeping his discipline in check) he'll be a key option for Ireland. I could well imagine that against teams like South Africa we'd go 4 McCarthy 5 Ryan 6 Beirne provided Joe keeps developing on track. I didn't think he'd make the RWC squad but his cameo's have impressed and the coaches seem keen, hope he goes well if given chances.

Finally - on Bealham, it started in the six nations before last but mostly since the NZ tour I've recalibrated my impressions of him entirely. I'd have no issue him starting for Ireland and in a way the fact that he's going so well and still second choice suggests are concerns about Furlong aren't quite reflective of things (unless Bealham subsequently gets the nod ahead of him...!).

In a recent interview for Leinster TV when asked what his most important skill was as a modern front row, Dan Sheehan said handling. One of the factors that has made Furlong so highly rated is his distribution and link play (for a tighthead) and Bealham has really developed this aspect of his game. He's well able to slot into the more complex attacking structures that Ireland deploys and he is as solid as we've had in the scrum. Another we need to have a big tournament.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054097#Comment_121054097

The 03 English team gets hyped up by the British media as an incredible side. Understandable as they are the only NH team to have won it. But they weren't one of the all time great teams. They were the best at that RWC but they aren't one of the greatest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054616#Comment_121054616

Yup - apparently the squad were covered in Sponc by the time they landed in France.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055077#Comment_121055077

Could you post that to the telegraph comments section and then copy the link here please. Thanks.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055077#Comment_121055077

They were on the slide by the time of the world cup, but I think in the year before it they really were quite the side.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055339#Comment_121055339

Yeah, in the year before as well as winning in New Zealand they won the Slam by battering us in Lansdowne in a winner takes all game. They were an aging team, but they knew how to win.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054204#Comment_121054204

You said there was not more contentious positions..

I think its up for debate.

Murray has actually started more games for Ireland in the last 12 months than JGP. I know JGP missed some 6 nations but Murray got injured in November after starting the first game.

Against the bigger physical pack Murray might be more suitable. Similar to how Murray started v the South Africans in November.

Murray is a superior kicker, tackler, organiser than JGP.

Teams are targeting JGP with kicks to him in the back field and defensively outwide and its not his expertise. Jgp was poor v England and very poor v La rochelle.

Sanjuro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054639#Comment_121054639

Can't really see O'Mahony being dropped outside injury. Line out proficiency and that old cliche, big game player. I'd love to see that Ryan, McCarthy, Beirne selection, but against SA, I'd imagine Faz will lean on the players who delivered on the biggest occasions in the last 12-14 months.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055498#Comment_121055498

We had two instances in the past season where the vast gap between JGP and Murray was highlighted, the first was against SA themselves and the second against Scotland, both of which JGP was coming back from injury so didn't start, and both of which he came on and completely changed the game in our favour. It would be a truly insane decision to start Murray over JGP if JGP is fit and ready to go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055502#Comment_121055502

Oh I'd be amazed if POM was dropped, more a looking to the future selection.

Interested Observer

Not going to bother guessing at a team for Romania or Tonga but imo the first XV is fairly locked in, and it is a damn good team:

Keenan

Hansen

Ringrose

Aki (he's just straight up playing better than Henshaw at the moment imo)

Hansen

Lowe

Sexton

JGP

Doris

VDF

POM

Beirne

Ryan

Furlong

Sheehan

Porter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055498#Comment_121055498

JGP is a phenomenal tackler, no idea where you're getting that from. Murray a more physical presence overall no doubt but I wouldn't see it as a weakness of either at all.

I also think JGPs fielding is excellent and some of our most innovative play the last two years has been with him at 9 so am unsure why you think Murray is a better 'organiser'.

I can't see beyond JGP starting and Murray closing. There have been a number of games where JGPs tempo style hasn't broken down the opposition and reverting to a more set piece, territory game through Murray has changed things up and delivered the win.

I wouldn't have an issue with Murray starting, I just don't think that's what we'll see all being fit.

Must love hardship

Insane might be an overstatement.

JGP has some excellent attacking qualities but he's not undropable.

He has gaping defensive frailties which will be targeted by the better teams and his game management is as questionable as his kicking.

It's happened before where the scrum half has changed mid tournament.

2007 redden went as back up to Stinger and boss and starts v Argentina.

In 2011 Murray went as backup with only a handful of caps and plays himself on the team by the knockouts

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054548#Comment_121054548

Well, the last two pages were equal parts entertaining and shitshow.

Thats generous, would have said 10-15 might be closer to the truth.

Rest is fairly accurate, we are pretty much settled in all positions 1-23 with only hooker and LH up for debate due to injuries. I wonder could JOB nudge Henshaw but I’d say the latter gets it on experience.

AbusesToilets

Unless JGP's form has fallen off of a cliff, he's nailed on. He's the only SH capable of playing our game plan to the fullest extent. Murray has improved massively since Argentina in 21, but he's still well behind JGP.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055632#Comment_121055632

And we had instances, such as the France game, where the gap didn't look vast at all.

I fully expect and want JGP to start. But I don't think the gap is as vast as it's sometimes painted.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056076#Comment_121056076

He has gaping defensive frailties which will be targeted by the better teams and his game management is as questionable as his kicking.

You must think his kicking is pretty good so...

JGP's game management is excellent precisely because he ensures we play at the kind of tempo that brings out the best in our players. Does he make more errors because of this? Sure, but that's entirely the point of playing the game at pace.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056167#Comment_121056167

Does he make more errors because of this? Sure, but that's entirely the point of playing the game at pace.

I hope the same thought process is given to the likes of Crowley and Casey when they play the game at a higher tempo and have a few errors in so doing.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056280#Comment_121056280

Didn’t take long to get back to the provincial angle 😂

Casey’s kicking has come on a lot since he came through. Not sure Murray’s kicking is as good as it was a few years ago where every kick seemed to be on the button.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056280#Comment_121056280

of course it is, which is why you'll often see Murray paired with Crowley and JGP/Casey paired with Byrne.

Murray / Byrne partnership is too slow and ponderous; Casey / Crowley is too frantic and loose (currently!)

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056429#Comment_121056429

I stayed out of the sh1t show yesterday please don't try bring me in to it today.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056495#Comment_121056495

100%, would prefer if the thread didn’t go there again 😀

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056438#Comment_121056438

Have we seen JGP and Crowley start a game together yet aside from Australia where Crowley was dropped in at the last minute? Think those two could compliment each other well.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056549#Comment_121056549

There are ways to avoid that and there are ways to try and drag people into it and you choose the latter.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056578#Comment_121056578

Apologies, a bit of over sensitivity on my part.

El Vino

Kelleher has to start the first game if he can't we are trouble, he needs 50-60 mins to show his fitness and get some game time.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052742#Comment_121052742

You’re missing the point. I’m saying that the missed Frawley kick wasn’t something in Crowleys control. And had it been different, which it could easily have been, then the narrative wouldn’t have been slightly different, it would have been very different. A small thing that wasn’t in his control could have led to a very different take on where he is.

That’s where he is. A good player with lots of potential who has gotten a bit of luck along the way. That’s not meant to demean him in any way. It’s meant to put some perspective on what is a runaway hype train at the moment. Nothing more. Crowley still has (understandable) issues in his game around things like decision making. It remains to be seen how good he will be. And yet I’ve seen people talking about him passing out Sexton during the RWC in the last week or two among some other crazy statements.

He’s currently behind Ross Byrne. He’ll overtake Byrne at some point, but he hasn’t yet. He’s good with lots of potential and we all hope he loves up to that. But it’s also okay to acknowledge the issues in his game, which some here refuse to allow.