Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629588#Comment_121629588

It boils down to the fact that POM is still Farrells No.1 at 6.

& Fair enough he was always the de facto leader in the pack.

It does strike me as a little odd that he has now moved away from James Ryan.

e.g. Ryan named captain back in Nov 2020 without Sexton. POM also starting. And also the end game in Oct 6N game v Fra.

Probably a bit of 'Team Loyalty' from Farrell to POM in his current contract situation.

& Prob also an indicator that Joe McCarthy is pushing hard for selection beside Beirne

Dubinusa

France selected a panel of minnows. Nothing to worry about!

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629665#Comment_121629665

Noone does, its complete nonsense.

Delighted to see POM named as captain. An experienced proven leader on and off the pitch is just what we need in this 6N. Let him set the tone while younger leaders step up more around him then make the change when Farrell starts to transition him out of the match day 15 and 23.

Also, if anyone can lead us back to having a great lineout from the pitch it's him.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629809#Comment_121629809

That's a fair shout, It probably highlights the mix the Irish selectors want, we have two big imposing wingers on the left, and two speedy tricky wingers on the right. Bolton could sub in for Lowe/Stockdale for sure and play in a similar way. He has shown himself to be capable under the high ball and has a destructive carry, don't know anything about his defense or his kicking though, could there be doubts there?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629937#Comment_121629937

Hes from SA so kicking shouldnt be a massive problem, plus Lowe is prone to some wayward kicking from time to time.

Clontarf_Jazz

Given Harry Byrne has an injury profile that's a cross between that of Sam Warburton & Sean O'Brien you could in theory easily see SP benching in the 6N by accident given how awful the alternatives are (Carty/Burns). As we all know LAR have a 19 year old (Hugo Reus) playing well & regularly in the Top 14. If your good enough you're old enough ?

Mr Tickle

I think this squad makes a lot of sense. We're losing a vital part of what made our team tick in Sexton, and are without Hansen, who is a very important part of our attack. Given that we'll have a very new 10 stepping into such a big hole, of course we want some stability around them.

The main thing this team needs is to regain some momentum and confidence. Throwing out everyone over 33 and hoping that the replacements gel immediately is madness. A couple of shaky performances and the public would be writing them off. And if that happened on the watch of a new less experienced captain, then their leadership will immediately be questioned. If it happens with POM, who cares, he's only going to be there for a year or so.

Personally I'd pick him as captain for the 6N and probably the Summer tour. Across those 8 games, I could see 3 where he either isn't involved, or is on the bench. Come November I'd move onto whoever captained those as the long term successor.

The squad is pretty consistent, but I expect to see some of the pecking order being rotated. Casey overtaking Murray, Loughman overtaking Healy (that one might need to be enforced a little bit) and McCarthy squeezing into the 23 more regularly etc. Then by next November the Murrays and Healys can be swapped out for the new blood

Farrell has built a very good team with an effective game plan. Our style has been developing steadily and I see no reason that'll stop now.

Locke_Lamora

The year of our lord 2024 and I still had to read 'zebo for Ireland,' 'class is permanent,' 'we could do with his flair.' Finally, no more. That heel flick against Wales did untold damage to Irish rugby's psyche, but we are healing at last.

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630021#Comment_121630021

Honestly it's his reliability that we could potentially use at the moment. Everyone after Keenan at this stage is playing their 2nd or 3rd choice position.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629815#Comment_121629815

It seems to me that Farrell selects a captain to suit the way he wants to keep the environment in the camp. Grumpy Johnny replaced by Grumpy Peter perhaps. Despite the cranky exterior the players seem to appreciate them within the camp.

I'm not sure if Peter would be certain to be a starter in this 6 Nations but for the fact he has been made captain now. It seems that happens quite a lot though, coaches select captains first, and then stick with them, any drop in performance compared to the next best player is outweighed by what the captain brings to the team and the environment.

Same went for Best and Sexton really. Well past their prime when finishing but perhaps kept on more for their captaining skills than their performances on the pitch.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629588#Comment_121629588

It's a fairly straightforward decision. We've lost our talisman and captain in Sexton. POM is the defacto leader of the pack and naming him captain keeps an element of leadership continuity for the 6N. It's up to the other 22 players to step up to the leadership plate and take over from POM. He's unlikely to be captain for next year's 6N so this is a transition plan. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and show they're ready to take over.

I can't see POM playing much more than 50 mins in any game and not at all v Italy. Ryan Baird will get plenty of scope to prove he's the future at no. 6. If he doesn't take his chance that's on him, not POM.

POM has already 'ticked the box' of being Ireland captain. 10 times if I'm not mistaken. Plus he captained the Lions in 2 test matches. His leadership credentials are as good as any out there. What will catch him eventually is his aging body and ability to operate at the highest level. Lots of competition for the 6 jersey but POMs captaincy is the right decision for this 6N.

roverjoyce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630118#Comment_121630118

What not start fresh ahead of a 4 year and give captaincy experience to new players rather than repeat the failings of the past which has produced failure at every world cup

BOD

Rory Best

Sexton

POM

All players who were captains past their prime which hinders development behind them

Neil3030

Pretty sure POM and/or Sexton had the Netflix crew thrown out of the changing room last year.

Even if it wasn't; can you think of anyone else in the squad who would dare to do that?

If you can, he'll be the captain when POM retires.

Problem is, I can't think of anyone who comes close.... maybe Ryan.... maybe some day Crowley....

Billy_the_Kid

Id like to have seen Baird start at 6, he is flying at the moment. Disappointing to see POM made captain really, it seems a perfect time now to bring in younger players...especially since Andy Farrell will not be coaching Ireland for next years 6 nations.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121629486#Comment_121629486

I don't see the downside to including Zebo. I'd prefer him filling in for Keenan than Larmour or Frawley.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630138#Comment_121630138

2 of those players retired as the best players available in their positions, BOD and Sexton, and are generally accepted as world class.

So "hindered the development" of what was coming behind is a bit of a ridiculous statement when what was coming behind was nowhere near good enough to oust them from their position.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630138#Comment_121630138

Captaincy is earned, not given out for trials. POM is hardly past his prime. First game back for Munster last weekend, away in Toulon. Leads the team to a vital BP victory. If we had more on field leadership v Bayonne and Exeter we may have won both of those too. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory as we looked leaderless in the last quarter of both games. POM isn't going to tear it up for the 6N. But if he can glue the team together, be workmanlike in his performances and shore up our disastrous linout post WC he'll have earned the captaincy.

Who would you have picked as captain? Not many obvious choices in my mind.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630151#Comment_121630151

Baird will get plenty of opportunity to show he's the long term future at no. 6. I'm a big fan of his. He's great in the lineout, a big plus with POM nearing the end. And he's more athletic with ball in hand. Baird will start v Italy and maybe even Wales. And get 20 mins plus in every other game. If he performs, he'll take the no.6 jersey. Simple as.

Right now this Irish team in transition needs continuity of leadership in the short term. POM provides that.

roverjoyce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630177#Comment_121630177

Ringrose, Sheehan, Doris, Keenan

Maybe one of them could bring something fresh/different rather than staying with the past in a short term role

Giving them a chance could have even led them to being a favorite for the Lions captain as looking at the other captains it is only Jamie George who is an option for that

Could that bring them to another level?

We might never find out now

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630162#Comment_121630162

I like Zebo, but think he's past it at this stage. I hope he continues to play well for Munster, but I don't see the benefit in handing him any caps now at this stage. Shane Daly would be a good shout though, terrific defender and decent pace and clever player, could be an asset for Ireland yet.

Foxtrol

Congrats to POM, very well deserved, and happy for him as a person. Hopefully it goes better for him than his Lions run in the role.

To me it is the wrong choice and another example of AF falling for sentimentality and probably fear to the detriment of the team. I don't see the value to the team in giving him the role.

From a PR perspective, what I noted as a concern a few months ago is already happening on Twitter - the captaincy is being weaponised as a stick to beat the IRFU. The captaincy will be even more of a poisoned chalice post POM if all parties can't come to an agreement and POM end up playing abroad and loses the captaincy.

phog

Delighted for POM, his doubters have to wait for another day.

From a Munster perspective happy with who's included but would have liked to see Hodnett somewhere.

Prendergast is probably the unluckiest of those not included.

Outhalf is an area of concern but we knew that once Joey wasn't part of the RWC.

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630138#Comment_121630138

Calling him "past his prime" is daft. The year running up to the World Cup has been one of his best veins of form in his career, and at the tournament he was one of our best performers. He's played two games since, due to getting injured in one, and in the other he played well and lead the team to a badly needed and impressive win.

I'd agree he's on the last couple of years of his career, but I haven't seen anything to say that he doesn't deserve his place in the team. If anything I think VDF might need to hit some of his higher levels again to keep Baird out of the back row.

snotboogie

50% of the under 30’s in that squad either went to Blackrock or Michael’s. An astonishingly narrow player base.

leakyboots

Love how Baird is the "generational talent" and the fella that has captained the Lions isn't.

POM is the generational talent, Baird is all potential. Looks to have bags of it mind.

Hodnett and especially Prendergast unlucky to miss out

Leslie Purkiss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630511#Comment_121630511

He was nonexistent vs. NZ. He doesn’t have the physical attributes to live with a top team in a big test. It will be the same again in two weeks.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630596#Comment_121630596

Could say the same about VDF

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630193#Comment_121630193

Hopefully so but by naming POM as captain suggests to me Baird will not get the game time you outlined. Like Schmidt, Farrell seems to discard current form in favour of past glories. This has hurt Ireland badly in the past.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630596#Comment_121630596

This has been the argument against him for years. He's repeatedly proven it wrong.