Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

mun1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632072#Comment_121632072

Think he played a few matches around September October time

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630832#Comment_121630832

I wasn't the first, I didn't invent anything and I'm afraid you didn't search hard enough. Start at 1.58pm today.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121631954#Comment_121631954

Colombes stats are through the roof again this season and he's had to play a lot at lock.

Buer

I don't think that anyone who has been left out can have too many complaints. They all either have issues with form or a specific element of their game that I don't think is up to the task for test rugby.

The only person that I think is genuinely harshly left out is Cian Prendergast. He has continued to play extremely well in a team going backwards. He was MOTM in an interpro and was a one man team against Bordeaux. He's potentially a victim of the small squad being named. This is the smallest 6N squad named in many years by an Irish coaching team.

Of those named, I think Harry Byrne is fortunate to be in there purely because of injuries to others and lack of options. He has played well in parts but also still struggles with injuries as well as having some sloppy moments. The other that jumps out is Conor Murray who looks well off the pace at this point and has had some ugly days this season so far. Blade can safely assume that he's never going to be an option under Farrell.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632078#Comment_121632078

No update on him in Leinster's last communiqué on returning players.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632078#Comment_121632078

Rumoured to be later in the 6N, probably available for last couple of rounds at best if deemed suitable/match fit.

sydthebeat

Maybe the bath friendly has been arranged in part to get hands role into his legs before the business end of the season

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632605#Comment_121632605

Coombes is having a fine season. Topping the stats from the off, I remember posting it around week 3. Was brilliant at 8 away in Toulon. I'd imagine he's not far off the squad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632731#Comment_121632731

I know he’s been shunted around a lot and asked to play a fair bit in second row where he doesn’t look that effective, but he’s looked really average for a lot of this season.

He looked good back at 8 against Toulon, but he’s still way down the pecking order for Ireland at 8, and he is isn’t going to make Ireland squads as a second row given some of the other options around and coming up.

I think Hodnett is more unlucky than Coombes.

Buer

I think Hodnett is a guy that probably is never going to be in the plans based on selections we've seen. He's 25, has been a provincial first choice for a couple of years but never brought into any Irish squad. I've always been a big fan and think he's a quality player. The area I'd think that he's potentially lacking in is speed/mobility. For an openside, he looks more cumbersome around the park than a guy like VDF who always looks more athletic in covering ground. I don't think he's able to make some of the plays that we've seen VDF and Timoney make in recent weeks.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632650#Comment_121632650

Just thought isn't Harry Byrne's currently injured too?

Assuming Crowley is getting the nod for the starting jersey, I'd guess HB is probably ahead of Frawley for the back-up 10 jersey. If HB is still injured for round 1, Frawley gets the 22 shirt and an opportunity cos he'd almost certainly get minutes.

Which opens the door to the possibility of a 6/2 split, tho admittedly Farrell seems to strongly favour the 5/3.

Buer

HB is potentially available for this weekend, apparently. I'd imagine his injury is minor as they wouldn't be naming him if he wasn't going to be able to train with them next week.

Based on Irish selections and involvement in training to date, I'd say Frawley is probably ahead of HB at this point. Newcomers have very little time to make an impact compared to those who have been in camps across the summer.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632605#Comment_121632605

Yeah Colombe has played really well with La Rochelle from what I've seen. I rated him at Racing too. Probably has been unlucky not to pick up a French cap along the way :P

On a more serious note, his stats were very good (indicating a good work rate) but until the Toulon game he had not been making any of the huge gains in carries that he did last year. He wasn't playing to his USP. His penalties conceded were also a concern.

He was serviceable at lock, but that's all you could really say. Hopefully the Toulon game kicks him on and allows him to find himself again.

I'd agree with @[Deleted User] that Hodnett would be more aggrieved to have missed out (mind I haven't seen enough Ulster to comment on Timoney's form). He's tackling like a 5'11 Prime Will Connors with extra jackling and carrying power.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633432#Comment_121633432

Timoney has been excellent so deserves to be there, no question, however that doesn't mean one or both of Hodnet or Prendergast couldn't be there as well. There's no limit to squad numbers, and while I understand that coaches probably want to work with smaller numbers, I'd have thought a few others could have been included for a week and maybe a handful could be released for game week.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633475#Comment_121633475

I'd have thought a few others could have been included for a week and maybe a handful could be released for game week.

This is the argument I have been making around other squads, have a few extra in as it gets players into the system, have then ready if we end up with an injury crisis in one particular area.

lawrencesummers

Prendergast is probably the player who was unluckiest. He has carried connacht at times in games this season and is an outstanding player who will be in his prime come the next WC.

He is the closest thing we have to a PSTD, massive workrate, enough niggle without overdoing it and getting smarter and stronger all the time.

If posters want to advocate for POMs exclusion based on age and building for the next world cup then it makes more sense that Jack Conan should dropped because a player who will be 36 by the next world cup and hasnt been putting in performances on the level of prendergast this season should be jettisoned first.

Im not saying i think it should happen, but if your going to argue about age and world cup cycles for one player then this change makes more sense.

Buer

I'd expect an updated squad to be released after the Welsh game (Round 3). We've a two week break before facing England in London. Potentially going to have a couple of guys back from injury as well as a couple more from this 34+3 that are injured. There were 9 players added to the squad at various times last season following the initial squad announcement.

I can understand the small squad fully at this point due to the fact that they've very limited time to work together. They meet up on Sunday, as far as I know which is probably about 9 days before the team is named for the opening game. They have basically named two starting teams to train against each other along with a couple of extra players in specialist positions.

Mr Tickle

I would think Prendergast is next off the rank if we lose any back row.

After that I think it might come down to who we lost in terms of Coombes or Hodnett.

Timoney probably edged Prendergast because he's an option at 7. Imo they've been pretty similarly good in terms of performances.

Shane Daly is probably fairly disappointed too. We're light on Full Back options and he's been good. Don't think he's been robbed or anything, but he must have been in the discussion until close to the end.

ionadnapokot

Is Will Conners injured?

Personally I'd have him ahead of Timoney. I like Timoney but if you needed a replacement for vdF v France I'd rather Conners.

POM, Baird & Dorris is a nice alternative

But for France and England you'd need someone to stop their ball carriers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632869#Comment_121632869

Yeah, would agree. I think Frawley is probably ahead of Harry Byrne in AF's thinking.

Frawley is such a useful bench option too because he can play 10, 12 or 15 to a relatively high level.

thebaz

Poor call from Farrell naming POM captain , we needed a fresh start a new era after WC , someone young/new like Ryan , but naming POM strikes of sentimenatilty , its professional rugby. POM has been a brilliant servant to Ireland and Munsetr , but really his time is up , happens to everyone, could possibly be used a squad player in certain matches rather than ever present captain.

aloooof

I honestly think the "sentimentality / his time is up" comments are doing a disservice to both POM and Farrell in his selection.

POM was one of our better players during the RWC, it's not like his form has fallen off a cliff or anywhere near that.

Add to that, we have a lot of transition with regards leadership with Sexton leaving, and an inexperienced 10 taking the reins of the attack.

I think it makes an awful lot of sense.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633729#Comment_121633729

Not doing him a disservice , stated he has been an Irish legend , but after the WC failure a new era should commence , and making POM captain at 34 does not do that , absolutly have him part of squad , but captain - We'll wait and see who right.

irishleeds

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633703#Comment_121633703

Why do we need a fresh start though?

We lost 1 big game (of course a huge game, but if we played them again same teams tomorrow id still think we'd beat them), which we could have nicked in the end, and apart from that basically dominated world rugby for a year or so.

Wholesale changes are not needed. Small adjustments and keep evolving is a much better plan for me, and that seems to be the plan. I get that the 1/4 final was a complete body blow, but losing it doesn't mean the whole year prior of being an incredible rugby team goes out the window.

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632846#Comment_121632846

Not sure I'd agree... Hodnett has plenty of pace, maybe it's his running style... he kind of barrels along, like a turbocharged prop! I'd have him down as arguably our fastest forward to be honest along with Barron and Aherne. What impresses me most with him is his workrate, he's a real dynamo - and his power, he packs a lot of it in attack and defence. More than a fella of his size should imo.

Farrell doesn't rate him for whatever reason so far, which is a pity.

Otagepingi

Wrong call to leave out ZEBO. How many blacks are there in this squad? Is it potentially a concern that Balacoune and Zebo have been left out and side-lined by the IRFU head honchos?

ZEBO should be there ahead of Stockdale (whoi hasn't been the same player since he shaved his head).

Hodnett should be there as well. He has a gas tank and energy that goes for days. I wouldn't min d seeing him switch to RL.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635202#Comment_121635202

Mod Warning: Any more racist nonsense and you'll be banned from the rugby forum.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633764#Comment_121633764

All the alternatives still played through the same WC cycle, got knocked out, and all of them are less experienced leaders than POM.

I view POM as a great leader who will relish spending a 6N and perhaps the SA tour as captain, then stepping aside for another member of that leadership group when the time comes.

I don't think it'll be any detrement to James Ryan (or whoever else succeeds him) to work with him for some time as captain.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633764#Comment_121633764

win today, win tomorrow

If Farrell dumps all the players with the blind hope of winning a World Cup he could lose all his games and the people crying for change will be the first demanding his resignation

Remember, France dumped all their players to win a home World Cup. They got to the same stage as Ireland

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635386#Comment_121635386

And England fired their coach 8 months out and got to the semi. I keep seeing this point about France chopping and changing to win the World Cup. I'm not sure that's how it went down, they rotated and selected to get to a team that were any good. Ireland were excellent during those years but let's face it, France were terrible for a lot of it. This Ireland team just won a grand slam, if France were winning grand slams I'm not sure they would have been changing the team radically every season. Farrell's approach of steadily bedding in new players to the wider squad as a means of building depth has been successful to a point. We'll understand better over the next couple of seasons whether the WC failure was a bad luck aberration or whether we aren't as good as we think we are and recent success has coincided with other top teams being off the pace somewhat. We know England under EJ weren't great, France were so so until around 2020/2021, Wales fell off a cliff, NZ had a bad run after the galactico team retired, etc.