Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Otagepingi

..

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635518#Comment_121635518

and people forget Rassie won a RWC with SA with an 18 month lead-in as head coach.

mun1

Likely 2024 6N starting team and their age at 2027 WC

Porter 31

Sheehan 29

furlong 35

Ryan 31

Beirne 37

POM 38

VDF 34

Doris 29

Park 35

Crowley 27

Aki 37

Ringrose 32

Lowe 35

Hansen 29

Keenan 31

its clearly not only POM who’s unlikely to make the 2027 WC.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635518#Comment_121635518

Not sure what this has to do with my point. It's Farrell job to win games.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635518#Comment_121635518

France won the GS in 2022 and finished ahead of Ireland 3 out of the 4 years in the last WC cycle.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635604#Comment_121635604

Beirne turned 32 ten days ago. He'll be 35 by the time of the next World Cup.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635689#Comment_121635689

I said France were so so until 20/21, thats when they landed on a squad that didn't change a great deal until the WC.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635860#Comment_121635860

They didn’t land on a squad.

Galthie first squad was 19 uncapped players with a view to winning a WC and that was the only aim.

Dubinusa

France have lots of talent coming up. Scary good.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636069#Comment_121636069

They have a lot of young players getting serious game time. A lot of those u20s will play 500+ minutes of senior rugby while our lads are knocking about in the AIL or joining a long queue for trash minutes at the arse end of the URC.

On their current trajectory France should really dominate the game for the foreseeable future but if course it rarely works out like that.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636168#Comment_121636168

That's never going to happen as long as Ireland are in the 6N.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636168#Comment_121636168

The same was said of NZ post 2011 and 2015. Strangely back to back WC and nobody has really made the claim about SA.

France clubs are starting to pull back the power from the French union, so let's see how it goes over the next few years.

In terms of Irish players, unless we get a 5th province or a better option and invest into the Emerging Ireland tours players will get minutes and progres as they currently are.

Not sure why that is a problem? our rate at moving players from U20 to full international is impressive when you compare to Wales/England etc it was said on podcasts.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633805#Comment_121633805

I get it is one game , but beforehand it was called the biggest game in Irish history , the facts are we lost and played poorly . Before the game I thoght Farrell was the greatest , but after the game some of his shortings cme to light , lack of use of squad players, and conservative on selection. Nothing against O'Mahoney he has been an Irish great , but he is 34 , I would like to have seen a more riskier selection process, which I cant see happening from Farrel.

I dont think Irreland will win 6 Nations, think ther will be an emotional hit on players, that has been ecident post WC , and is understable , losing a game of that magnitude has to have an impact on any human or player - thats just my amateur thoughts.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636524#Comment_121636524

"played poorly"?

We didn't play to our peak but I wouldn't class it as poorly.

Not sure how you can rate a coach as the greatest and then one game totally changes that opinion.

FYI the teams who have won the WC have played more or less the same 23 from start to finish. That's been happening for many years.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635999#Comment_121635999

Of those 19 in 2020 only Gros and Lucu were selected for the WC. Landed on eventually, I should have said. It kind of reinforces the point some people are making, that there aren't any guarantees in test rugby. You can rebuild the team immediately after the wc and see success in the 6N as France did in 22, but it doesn't guarantee anything in the WC.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636971#Comment_121636971

We should just try win every game, like Farrell is doing or trying to do

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637031#Comment_121637031

That's the mandate and the model. The only weakness I perceive, and others here have challenged it, is that insisting our best team takes the field for every big game (or game against tier 1 opposition) means we never have a great amount of faith in our wider squad when it comes to the WC. For whatever reason (fewer games mainly) being in perfect condition of the 6N does not translate into perfect condition for the WC and while the 6N remains the rhythm around which the team operates we will always have a difficulty adjusting to the different challenge the WC poses.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637031#Comment_121637031

From 2020-2023, Ireland have a win % of 81%, compared to South Africa's 69%. But I know who's position I'd rather be in.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637124#Comment_121637124

Now do every other team.

We're never nearly as bad as you constantly make out, TRC.

OldRio

Very happy to see POM made captain. A like for for like replacement. We also desperately need his help re the lineout. The lineout for all provinces and Ireland have gone to crap.

In regard to the squad. After this weekend we will see changes. Unfortunately injuries will take their toll.

Interested Observer

Would recommend the latest episode of the Molecast where they discuss the squad and rather going player-by-player or anything go into why Farrell might have made the decisions he has made, why he made POM captain, etc. They're fairly supportive of all the decisions made but thought it was a very interesting listen.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637866#Comment_121637866

Maybe if Ireland had a better line out option at 6 the lineout would have more options and could function better.

Imagine if Ireland had an alethic 6 who was 6 6 in Baird or Bierne or 6 7 or 6 8 in Ahern the thrower would have more viable options.

Instead Ireland look to persist with a 6 and 7 who are both only 6 2.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637124#Comment_121637124

Not really relevant is it?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638037#Comment_121638037

A more viable lineout option? Than POM? Are we really suggesting POM isn't a viable lineout option now??

The height thing is a misnomer too; it's regularly been reported that POM has the highest vertical jump stats in the squad, and he also gets into the air quicker, so any height advantage doesn't really tell us much. Bigger guys are heavier to lift.

Whatever else people want to say about POM, he's still an elite level lineout option. On both sides of the ball.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637886#Comment_121637886

I liked the stat about POM

When he started in at least 4 games Ireland won the Championship more often than not.

'12 1 Start, 2 Bench -3rd

2013 5 Starts - 5th

2014 4 Starts - 1st

2015 5 Starts - 1st

'16 0 Starts - 3rd

'17 1 Start, 2 Bench - 2nd

2018 5 Starts - Grand Slam

2019 5 Starts - 3rd

'20 2 Starts 3 Bench - 3rd

'21 1 Start, 2 Bench - 3rd

'22 2 Starts, 3 Bench - 2nd

2023 4 Starts, 1 Bench - Grand Slam

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637124#Comment_121637124

Ireland are a better team than South Africa. We win more games.

South Africa have the tools to navigate the attrition of a RWC. They have a monster pack and an elite place kicker.

Completely fine if you'd rather be in the latter position. We could put Baird, Ahern, Connors etc on triple-strength clenbuterol, and have Jack Crowley practice nothing but goal kicking every day of his life.

But do ask yourself, honestly, if you'd accept the downsides, such as losing to the likes of Scotland and/or Wales each year, and rarely winning the 6N.

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636903#Comment_121636903

But it wasn't just an ordinary game , biggest game in Irish history, and the reality is we failed , I'm sure thats how the players saw it, if they had played well and won , they would have made a final , now its yet another WC knockout defeat , thats how many casual rugby/ sports people will see it too. and yet , I agree we played well in the groups stages and prepartaion seamed perfect, but when it came to pressure knockout rugby , its yet another knockout defeat.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638178#Comment_121638178

The manner of the defeat was very different to what we had previously seen tho.

Prior to that game, we had won 17 consecutive Tests. That's only been bettered twice ever.

Yes, the QF defeat was gutting. But there's no need to tear up the script and start afresh. Particularly in light of their being some evolution anyways, with Sexton's retirement, Hansen's injury etc.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638083#Comment_121638083

Pom appears to be an excellent defensive lineout operator. He bases himself at the front and can read the opposition jumpers very well.

I agree he is probably a better line out option from 6 than other "back row" options of Conan, pender etc.

But I'm not sure he is a better line out option than the Hybrid 4/6 like Bierne, Baird or Ahen.

South Africa went after Ireland lineout in the world cup as they had 3 excellent lineout options. 3 big men over 6 5. And 2 more giants on the bench.

Ireland had 2 2nd rows around 6 5 and a back row of all under 6 3. It made the lineout easier to defend for South africa winning 6 of irelands lineouts.

Either was it looks like we won't find out now that pom is captain and will no doubt start all important games at 6 for the foreseeable.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638287#Comment_121638287

I think we lost the first 4 or 5 lineouts in that game (the lineout was obviously a major issue all tournament in fairness).

But we went on to shore it up from there in the SA game, and a large part of the solution was throwing POM (and Beirne) up at 2.

Open to correction here, but I'm pretty sure for SA, the back-5 of the pack are all lineout options, but for us VdF is essentially not a jumping option, so that's really where the advantage at lineout time lay.

Look, the lineout is clearly an area that'll need significant improvement in the 6 Nations, but suggesting we need more viable options than POM for that doesn't stack up to me.