Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clo-Clo · 19-01-2024 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638178#Comment_121638178

It was a qtr final, we have had plenty of them and never won them.

The biggest games in Irish history would be the Grand Slam wins etc as far as I am concerned. Winning a qtr final doesn't end up with a trophy. Just another game.

Couldn't really care about what the casual fans say.

Podge_irl · 19-01-2024 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637124#Comment_121637124

A) It's not a dichotomy

B) I actually enjoy our wins for what they are. That's why I'm not as big a misanthrope as you. It's a nicer way to live.

thebaz · 19-01-2024 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638380#Comment_121638380

I and probably probably most would differ - the World cup is the big one , with the world powerhouses included , plus it only happens once every 4 years - knockout is a differnet beast to group/league rugby

OldRio · 19-01-2024 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638850#Comment_121638850

Indeed. Winning a league is much more difficult. Life's too short to worry about a competition every 4 years. Six Nations every time for me. (It also pays the bills)

Dubinusa · 19-01-2024 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638905#Comment_121638905

I'd prefer a world cup. Imagine the novelty of wee Ireland winning a world title.

Clo-Clo · 19-01-2024 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638850#Comment_121638850

If we got to the final it would be the big one. I don't see anyone saying a qtr final is a big game.

Winning a 6 nations is a huge event and should be treated as such. Especially a Grand Slam.

Irish fans are basking in the glory of the success the last few years, I look at the overall record of Ireland in rugby and the number of Grand Slams we have won means they are not to be sniffed at which some fans seem to think they are

Locke_Lamora · 19-01-2024 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635604#Comment_121635604

We are in a very curious place where our players that are getting older are still very much a step above the incumbents right now but they will almost certainly be too old to play in the next world cup, or they will have diminished significantly. I didn't expect too much change tbh, consistency is important and we only have four teams in which players can gain experience in as opposed to France and England. I'm not even sure there will be too much change in the summer either.

My brief long-term thinking about who needs replacing:

We have no Loosehead depth. Loughman is a fine enough player but I would prefer our second choice to be better, and Healy being there is worrying. Will McCarthy or Boyle be ready? They will be young in prop years but old enough to make impacts. Will injuries catch up to Furlong? Bealham is good but is there anyone kicking down doors for a call up at tighthead? Bit worried about prop.

Hooker is fine.

Beirne and Henderson will likely be too old to make an impact, but are hopefully still capable of providing a veteran presence when needed. McCarthy is biting at their heels already, Ahern is going from strength to strength now that he's getting an injury free run and Baird can play there if needed. Are Murray or Edogbo international standard? Not sure.

Couldn't guess our backrow a few years from now. POM won't make it and I have doubts about JVDF and Conan, but I'm not too worried. Baird is playing his best rugby now at 6 and finally seems to be coming into his own (and possibly overtaking Conan?). Timoney is the man in pole position and will be a good age at the next world cup. He is in form, big enough, explosive and the coaches clearly like him well enough, but can he make an impact as a first choice international? I am doubtful. Hodnett is playing incredibly - do the coaches not like something about him (eg. too small?) or is there just too much competition. Connacht fans were equally critical of Prendergast's omission but I haven't seen enough of him. Brian Gleeson will be young still by the next world cup, but no younger than Doris making his break through. McCann started off the season like a man on a mission but I'm not sure on his best position and he needs to be playing at an even higher standard for a longer period of time for me. There is much to be said about will connors finding great form after that nasty injury, I had doubted he’d make it back to this level. He will be young enough and I don’t think too many people would be overly upset about him starting for Ireland right now.

Halfbacks - will Park still be first choice? Is Casey definitely good enough? Do we have any highly rated 9's coming through? Doak gets mentioned far to much in these conversations for me. Decent player, not sure about his international prospects though. Lots of pressure on Crowley right now. Definitely has his flaws and has a different style than we have been used to with Ireland but I think he will be steady. Lots of hype around Prendergast, probably too much for someone just starting out with three international flyhaves in front of him. Not convinced by either Byrnes but I like Ross as a veteran presence and someone to do a consistent and reliable job when called upon.

It might be a tournament too far for Aki and I worry about Henshaw's injuries and how they'll impact him in a few years. He will be 34 so could still feature but I have doubts he will age as strongly as Aki has. McCloskey has never been particularly rated and will be 35. Who's next? Jamie Osbourne surely would have featured in the squad if not for injury, the rest are fighting amongst themselves at the minute. Hume has re-found form but I need to see it over a more sustained period of time, and Munster fans are singing Frisch's praises. Would love for a younger, unestablished centre come through in the next two years to provide better competition (Forde, Postlethwaite, insert Leinster prospect here). Ringrose should still be an excellent partner to have though.

Lowe will probably not be the same player at 35, so a wing spot should open up but I'm not sure anyone knocking about right now has his kind of impact. Lots of decent players, but standout internationals? Not really imo. Would love for a decent backup to Keenan to emerge. Very little depth there.

Wow, that was a ramble.

aloooof · 19-01-2024 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639181#Comment_121639181

Lots of good stuff there.

For TH, it's possible Oli Jager might emerge as a back-up option. His start at Munster has been encouraging anyways.

For 10, on this:

Lots of pressure on Crowley right now. Definitely has his flaws and has a different style than we have been used to with Ireland but I think he will be steady.

I'd argue (and have done in the past) that his style is more suitable to what we've seen in attack in the last few years than RB.

The 10 positions reminds me a bit of the Hooker position after the last RWC, where there was significant change and the guys who came in - Herring, Kelleher and Sheehan - only had a small number of caps.

A tall order, but if the likes of Crowley and the rest can match what we've seen in that position, we'll be in a very good spot.

Dubinusa · 19-01-2024 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639181#Comment_121639181

I think lh will be fine. Porter will be 32. Then there's Loughman who is becoming very good and Boyle, who could become a great player. Don't forget Milne either!

Th, I doubt Bealham or Furlong survive until the next world cup. Pole position would be O'Toole, who's very good, Jager and Aungier, who is playing well.

Hendo and Beirne will be old and have a lot of miles on the clock. I would think that Edogbo, Ryan and McCarthy will be the top 3, with one of the Murray's and Ahern.

Backrow will be interesting! Timoney will be 32. Connors 31. I reckon Hodnett or Penny will be involved by then. McAnn and Gleeson could be involved. I really am a fan of Quinn also. Fantastic looking prospect. Doris will only be 29 and Deegan will be 31. Plenty of options.

Scrum half is a worry. We will depend on someone breaking in. Out half will be ok, imo.

Centers should be different by then. Aki will be past it. Henshaw likely done too. Ringrose could be there but, he's injury prone. I'm guessing, Forde and Osborne could be the center partnership. Back 3 is worrying. Hanson, Keenan are great but there's really nobody else close to them.

50HX · 19-01-2024 3:42pm

Would love to see Frisch get called up.

It's another position we are light on

Aki henshaw etc can step in but they are not out & out 13's

He's the current best 13 outside of ringrose & has a super passing ability, doesn't light the place up but is key to mu sters midfield

aloooof · 19-01-2024 3:45pm

What odds on us trying a 6/2 split during the 6 Nations? It'd be an opportunity to ensure someone like Baird and/or Timoney get on the bench.

sydthebeat · 19-01-2024 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639500#Comment_121639500

shows the value of having a Frawley type in the squad.

i wouldn't at all be surprised to see both France and Ireland go 6/2 in the opening game.

the big question in that situation though, Casey or Murray?

aloooof · 19-01-2024 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639571#Comment_121639571

I'd go for Casey, even from the first game in France. The Munster management picked on form last season, with each of them in as first choice at times. For me, Murray's had a poor start to the season, while Casey has been very good. His pass quality is ridiculous at times.

phog · 19-01-2024 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639500#Comment_121639500

Frawley gives you some flexibility for a 6/2 split but other than having the option I really don't see the need for it.

AdamD · 19-01-2024 4:18pm

6-2 split would allow you to have Ryan, Beirne, Henderson and McCarthy in the 23

phog · 19-01-2024 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639725#Comment_121639725

I understand that but it's not like we use power and power alone to win games, the risk may not be worth the gamble. We've seen that Farrell likes to have a specialist centre on the bench, would he gamble having only two backs on the bench? I don't see it happening.

Podge_irl · 19-01-2024 4:37pm

While I'm not convinced we'll look at a 6-2 split I do think they'd lean towards Murray in that scenario as he's going to be better emergency cover out in the backs.