READ SUMMARY IN POST 986 - Amazon.uk Post-Brexit

harmless

Wheety wrote: »

That's a different service. The poster I replied to was saying you can still use the Parcel Motel lockers for convenience, not necessarily for bringing in an item from the UK.

An Post lockers are free.

Yes true although technically not free as Amazon pays for the delivery from prime membership fees.

When An Post lockers are available country wide it will be a very useful service.

beauf

scamalert wrote: »

i didnt mean it in that way, more so that they bought em physical boxes, which are no use atm,....

I'm just saying the boxes ARE useful. Perhaps for less people. But they are useful for out of hours collections of parcels.

beauf

Wheety wrote: »

That's a different service. The poster I replied to was saying you can still use the Parcel Motel lockers for convenience, not necessarily for bringing in an item from the UK.

An Post lockers are free.

There are none near me. I think the nearest on is 30 mins round trip.

Nearest parcel Motel is 5 mins.

My last An Post parcel (a letter sized "parcel") took 2-3 weeks. Went from Dublin to the midlands, back to Dublin then to me (Dublin). Previous one from the UK too ages once it got to Ireland also.

rubadub

ussjtrunks wrote: »

I don’t understand why it’s a flat 10€ a % of the order makes more sense, 10€ on a 23€ order is mad

it IS a % charge and I don't understand why its not a flat charge.

Quackster wrote: »

It's not quite a flat charge.

An Post charge 1% of the value of the consignment or €10, whichever is the higher.

They list it as 1% first, and a min charge of €10. So if anything it should be described as a % charge, and "not quite a % charge as they do have a minimum".

https://www.anpost.com/customs

A fee of 1% of the value of the packet or parcel, with a minimum charge of €10, is charged by An Post for customs clearance of parcels imported from countries outside the EU. This fee is in addition to any duty or VAT payable.

it makes no sense to my why an post should get €20,000 for a €2 million painting sent via the same service as a painting with a value of €2 shipped for €28 bringing it into the amount liable to collect €6 in VAT on. Is it that much harder to deliver? Same goes for restaurants charging 20% for the service on opening at €2,000 bottle of wine, vs a €20 one.

Jim2007

harmless wrote: »

So you think that after paying Irish VAT and not UK VAT as is normal with the Amazon checkout process the courier will then charge us UK VAT and fees when it arrives in Ireland?

Are you sure Amazon.co.uk is registered for VAT in Switzerland in the same way they are registered for VAT in Ireland?
If not then ordering from Switzerland is very different from ordering from Ireland.

There is also tariffs on some goods that travel between the UK and Switzerland, this will not be the case between the UK and the EU.

The two scenarios are not comparable..

westyIrl wrote: »

I would imagine it is Swiss VAT the handling charge relates to. As previous poster outlined, if Amazon take care of the VAT issue at checkout (+ Swiss VAT - UK VAT) you have nothing to worry about. Not sure what UK-Swiss deal is in place however as I would question if EU-UK FTA applies at all. Convoluted mess!

Jim

After the 1st of Jan the UK will no longer be in the EU customs union and furthermore the EU VAT regulations change in terms of paperwork, we are still paying the VAT as before. But the boys have taken the opportunity to bang on an extra fee to handle the paperwork. And since they all announced it, I doubt it’s one local guy on a solo run.

They have also said that there will have to be additional physical checks and we will get charged for those too... so Mr Customs man will cost me now even if all is in order.

So come the new year, I’ll be buying only of Amazon.de or .fr

bee06

beauf wrote: »

I'm just saying the boxes ARE useful. Perhaps for less people. But they are useful for out of hours collections of parcels.

The locker to locker and locker to home address options are also much better value if sending stuff within Ireland than An Post. I’d use them a lot for buying and selling 2nd hand clothes.

westyIrl

Jim2007 wrote: »

After the 1st of Jan the UK will no longer be in the EU customs union and furthermore the EU VAT regulations change in terms of paperwork, we are still paying the VAT as before. But the boys have taken the opportunity to bang on an extra fee to handle the paperwork. And since they all announced it, I doubt it’s one local guy on a solo run.

They have also said that there will have to be additional physical checks and we will get charged for those too... so Mr Customs man will cost me now even if all is in order.

So come the new year, I’ll be buying only of Amazon.de or .fr

My understanding is that where EU VAT has been paid (i.e. Amazon UK shipping to Ireland and charging Irish VAT rate) then nothing else is owed either to Customs or Shipping handlers. Customs raising charges for actual inspections is news to me. Whether Amazon (UK) decides to tack on customs handling charges at some future stage remains to be seen. Doubtful as a trusted trader however. However considering half the stuff doesn't ship from an Amazon UK warehouse and Irish VAT is paid, it's just as easy for Amazon to route packages from EU warehouses and avoid the UK.

Where a package is imported and Irish/EU VAT unpaid then there will be VAT due and associated handling charges by An Post et al. for same. i.e. The same as a package from China except no duties.

This is my understanding but I'd like to know if I'm mistaken, particularly if it is the case that An Post/DHL etc. can charge handling fees even where no VAT is due.

The big question is if mainland Europe-Ireland shipping channels can be created in the coming years at scale that would be more viable to dealing with the UK as a land-bridge and it's associated costs/delays.

Jim

sdanseo

westyIrl wrote: »

My understanding is that where EU VAT has been paid (i.e. Amazon UK shipping to Ireland and charging Irish VAT rate) then nothing else is owed either to Customs or Shipping handlers. Customs raising charges for actual inspections is news to me. Whether Amazon (UK) decides to tack on customs handling charges at some future stage remains to be seen. However considering half the stuff doesn't originate from an Amazon UK warehouse and Irish VAT is paid, it's just as easy for Amazon to route packages from EU warehouses and avoid the UK.

Where a package is imported and VAT unpaid then there will be customs and associated handling charges by An Post et al.

This is my understanding but I'd like to know if I'm mistaken.

The big question is if Mainland Europe-Ireland shipping channels can be created in the coming years at scale that would be more viable to dealing with the UK as a land-bridge and it's associated costs/delays.

Jim

Regardless of whether Amazon UK collect the Irish VAT on behalf of Revenue, a customs declaration is still required for shipping to Ireland. Nothing gets around that, and this is where handling fees come in (e.g. An Post currently charge €10 for this making most small shipments no longer worth the bother.. this also takes time also rendering prime potentially useless).

The main questions to be answered still are:

1. Will Amazon UK collect Irish VAT on behalf of Revenue (and by extension, or if not: will they charge any additional UK VAT);

2. Will Amazon UK complete the customs declaration on the import side (as defined from an export declaration for leaving the UK) for its Irish customers;

3a. If so, and delivery is handled via An Post, will they continue to charge additional €10 on top;

3b. If so, and delivery is handled via Amazon, will they charge for these services;

3c. Will customers know in advance which of 3a. or 3b. will apply?


The proof of the pudding in the absence of anything other than a vague mass-mail from Amazon is going to be in the eating. For sure though, ordering from any other Amazon site still based in the EU is business "as usual" .. but those sites do not currently offer prime to Ireland (though I have seen reports on other threads of people receiving deliveries from them in 2 days regardless, clarification needed on how they're managing that).

rubadub wrote: »

it makes no sense to my why an post should get €20,000 for a €2 million painting sent via the same service as a painting with a value of €2 shipped for €28 bringing it into the amount liable to collect €6 in VAT on. Is it that much harder to deliver? Same goes for restaurants charging 20% for the service on opening at €2,000 bottle of wine, vs a €20 one.

They are advancing the VAT and duty owed to Revenue from their own account, and charging it back to you. The percentage charge is based around that small amount of risk to them as they being the clearing agent assume full liability for the full amount of VAT and duty due until you pay them.

Of course these structures were made before it became clear that no duty would be payable, and don't just apply to the UK but all non-EU countries. Besides, VAT is still payable if it's not collected on Revenue's behalf by the seller. Which it won't be unless they're a large outfit.

whomitconcerns

sdanseo wrote: »

Regardless of whether Amazon UK collect the Irish VAT on behalf of Revenue, a customs declaration is still required for shipping to Ireland. Nothing gets around that, and this is where handling fees come in (e.g. An Post currently charge €10 for this making most small shipments no longer worth the bother.. this also takes time also rendering prime potentially useless).

The main questions to be answered still are:

1. Will Amazon UK collect Irish VAT on behalf of Revenue (and by extension, or if not: will they charge any additional UK VAT);

2. Will Amazon UK complete the customs declaration on the import side (as defined from an export declaration for leaving the UK) for its Irish customers;

3a. If so, and delivery is handled via An Post, will they continue to charge additional €10 on top;

3b. If so, and delivery is handled via Amazon, will they charge for these services;

3c. Will customers know in advance which of 3a. or 3b. will apply?


The proof of the pudding in the absence of anything other than a vague mass-mail from Amazon is going to be in the eating. For sure though, ordering from any other Amazon site still based in the EU is business "as usual" .. but those sites do not currently offer prime to Ireland (though I have seen reports on other threads of people receiving deliveries from them in 2 days regardless, clarification needed on how they're managing that).



They are advancing the VAT and duty owed to Revenue from their own account, and charging it back to you. The percentage charge is based around that small amount of risk to them as they being the clearing agent assume full liability for the full amount of VAT and duty due until you pay them.

Of course these structures were made before it became clear that no duty would be payable, and don't just apply to the UK but all non-EU countries. Besides, VAT is still payable if it's not collected on Revenue's behalf by the seller. Which it won't be unless they're a large outfit.

I've had 4 day delivery from Amazon.co.jp! So it's all possible to work

forzacalcio

50% of my sales from Amazon would go to the states. I rarely if ever have any issues so long as I use the correct form on AnPost.com. Why would the UK be so different? Surely it's the exact same. The only issue I see is delays tbh. That will sort itself out after a few months of teething issues. I'm fully aware it's shipping to the UK from here but I'd imagine it's the same for them shipping here.

rock22

sdanseo wrote: »

Of course these structures were made before it became clear that no duty would be payable, ...

Is that clear that no duties are payable.
My reading is that no duty is payable on British goods but there is duty payable if the good are not manufactured in UK. So duty would be payable on clothes made in Asia, on electronics made in China etc. and sold by UK retailer.

Quackster

sdanseo wrote: »

Regardless of whether Amazon UK collect the Irish VAT on behalf of Revenue, a customs declaration is still required for shipping to Ireland. Nothing gets around that, and this is where handling fees come in (e.g. An Post currently charge €10 for this making most small shipments no longer worth the bother.. this also takes time also rendering prime potentially useless)...

Amazon UK parcels are already shipping with the customs declarations on the boxes. I received one a few days ago.

An Post only charge €10 when they've had to pay customs charges on your behalf. If no charges are due, no €10 fee is payable.

Anyway, this is a moot point as Amazon UK imports its goods in bulk into the country themselves so they will be handling customs clearance themselves. As they'll be a trusted trader, this should involve virtually all of their parcels coming straight through without any physical inspections or delays. Parcels to be delivered by An Post only join the postal system in this country after import. And no doubt we'll find that more and more stuff bought from Amazon UK gets routed to us via EU warehouses too.

There's been a lot of catastrophising about the end of the viability of Amazon UK for us here in this and other threads when it's abundantly clear now that little will change from our perspective.

worlds goodest teecher

OK just placed an order with Amazon UK, four items amounting to €55. All to be delivered first week of Jan. Rather than reading through the whole thread with differing opinions, am I likely to incur any additional taxes?

CelticRambler

worlds goodest teecher wrote: »

Rather than reading through the whole thread with differing opinions, am I likely to incur any additional taxes?

If you're not interested in reading the thread, or the differing opinions expressed, you'd probably be better asking Revenue or Amazon for a definitive answer. :P

worlds goodest teecher

CelticRambler wrote: »

If you're not interested in reading the thread, or the differing opinions expressed, you'd probably be better asking Revenue or Amazon for a definitive answer. :P

Really haven't got the time to and absolutely hate taxation issues. Just wanted to know what the current state of play is. This thread was started before Brexit agreement was reached. Thought I might get a yes or no to additional charges. Don't worry about it, I will find the answer elsewhere.

Do you have prime?

I ordered a couple of things from Amazon.co.uk last night, but instead of putting them all in one order, I ordered each one separately, keeping the cost below €22 each time, with free delivery.

Annoying, but if I'd put them all in one order, it would have been way over.

I don't know if its worth continuing to pay prime for free delivery, but I'll probably continue to buy small items in this way from .co.uk. if I can.

Anything over the limit, I'll look to hagglezon.

worlds goodest teecher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you have prime?

I ordered a couple of things from Amazon.co.uk last night, but instead of putting them all in one order, I ordered each one separately, keeping the cost below €22 each time, with free delivery.

Annoying, but if I'd put them all in one order, it would have been way over.

I don't know if its worth continuing to pay prime for free delivery, but I'll probably continue to buy small items in this way from .co.uk. if I can.

Anything over the limit, I'll look to hagglezon.

Yeah, have prime. Wasn't aware of €22 limit. Would amending order work? Roughly how much tax will be applied to a £55 order?

Hy Gieni

I had a free month of Prime starting with Black Friday. One night I ordered three items - several hours apart, only to find they were all grouped together and arrived in the one box. Safer to order one or two days apart.



Another item, bought on Amazon Spain, was dispatched from Rochester England. After 1st Jan that item would have incurred all kinds of add-on taxes.

worlds goodest teecher

Hy Gieni wrote: »

I had a free month of Prime starting with Black Friday. One night I ordered three items - several hours apart, only to find they were all grouped together and arrived in the one box. Safer to order one or two days apart.



Another item, bought on Amazon Spain, was dispatched from Rochester England. After 1st Jan that item would have incurred all kinds of add-on taxes.

At what point is the Irish tax applied? Delivery?

worlds goodest teecher

Cancelled order before dispatch to be on safe side. Will reorder items individually later this evening. Thanks.

Hy Gieni

Hy Gieni wrote: »

I had a free month of Prime starting with Black Friday. One night I ordered three items - several hours apart, only to find they were all grouped together and arrived in the one box. Safer to order one or two days apart.

Good point, especially if fulfilled by Amazon. I'll keep that in mind in future.

Luckily mine all appear to be dispatching separately.

wozniattack

Hy Gieni wrote: »

I had a free month of Prime starting with Black Friday. One night I ordered three items - several hours apart, only to find they were all grouped together and arrived in the one box. Safer to order one or two days apart.



Another item, bought on Amazon Spain, was dispatched from Rochester England. After 1st Jan that item would have incurred all kinds of add-on taxes.

I ordered a PNY SSD, and it came from France, went through the Netherlands, and then to Ireland.

Completely skipped the UK, despite being ordered from .co.uk.

Xenji

Went to change a lot of pre orders on today from Parcel Motel to my home address and it is not currently possible as the below message keeps coming up for everything

We're sorry. Your order contains items that may not be dispatched to the selected destination. Please select another address.

I tried to pre order a few other things to see if the same message showed up and it did for every item I tried, no issues with items that have already been released but games, books, vinyl etc cannot be pre ordered to an Irish address.

scamalert

Xenji wrote: »

Went to change a lot of pre orders on today from Parcel Motel to my home address and it is not currently possible as the below message keeps coming up for everything



I tried to pre order a few other things to see if the same message showed up and it did for every item I tried, no issues with items that have already been released but games, books, vinyl etc cannot be pre ordered to an Irish address.

that issue existed for years now, thus most would bypassed it by using virtual UK/NI addresses, more to do with region copyrights etc then brexit.
as in recent years theres tons of new laws that came into place, like getting power brick became almost impossible. on likes of ebay i could order craft knife sets, then they decided blades are no go, yet order a kit and your gtg same stuff with any battery tools order kit and sure enough its fine, need a spare battery tough luck :cool:.


as far as amazon goes thou i have no worries MOD posted a link quite few pages back now, and amazon outlined how they will operate and there wont be any hidden fees etc, youll see full amount on checkout and that will be it, pretty much like they shipped stuff from US till now.


As most issues will come from small online retailers that will have little clue in first months either by shipping items not properly declared and filled out or cutting some tax corners that end users here will be annoyed most about, not to mention it has yet to me seen, how an post will handle loads in proper timeline.

NATLOR

worlds goodest teecher wrote: »

Really haven't got the time to and absolutely hate taxation issues. Just wanted to know what the current state of play is. This thread was started before Brexit agreement was reached. Thought I might get a yes or no to additional charges. Don't worry about it, I will find the answer elsewhere.

You have already paid Irish VAT through Amazon on anything purchased before Jan 1 so no issue

Xenji

It's not due to to that issue, there was no problems a week ago changing pre orders to an Irish address and now nothing I have tried for pre order will ship to Ireland nor can I change an existing pre order to an Irish address.

I get what you are saying about about electrical stuff, liquids, batteries and the like but this is just basic entertainment stuff.

Take an example of a book series, the 6th book is currently out and has no issues delivering to an Irish address, the 7th is due out the in February for pre order and you cannot use an Irish address.

I pre order dozens of items off of Amazon a month and besides the odd game I have had no issues, the pre order guarantee was a great way of saving money.

paddydriver

worlds goodest teecher wrote: »

Cancelled order before dispatch to be on safe side. Will reorder items individually later this evening. Thanks.

Most stuff into Ireland from Amazon.co.uk is now delivered by Amazon Logistics themselves (may be open to correction from people in other parts of the country - I am in Dublin) so think they may well combine the orders anyway. But fairly sure nothing should change on 1st Jan for orders from Amazon.co.uk as IE VAT is already been charged.

I have 2 x 4k computer monitors arriving after 1st Jan too and these would have incurred duty too - but think that threat is gone now since a trade deal was agreed. Amazon are very efficient at collecting all charges at the checkout so don't think you have much worry... one thing I would advise though is for now to stick to items that are "shipped and sold" by Amazon themselves.

Amazon are effectively a logistics company.. and they are very good at it. Wouldn't worry too much with just lashing in your order.

harmless

paddydriver wrote: »

Most stuff into Ireland from Amazon.co.uk is now delivered by Amazon Logistics themselves (may be open to correction from people in other parts of the country - I am in Dublin)

I can confirm that there is no Amazon delivery available outside Dublin.

Jim_Hodge

paddydriver wrote: »

Most stuff into Ireland from Amazon.co.uk is now delivered by Amazon Logistics themselves (may be open to correction from people in other parts of the country - I am in Dublin) so think they may well combine the orders anyway. But fairly sure nothing should change on 1st Jan for orders from Amazon.co.uk as IE VAT is already been charged.

I have 2 x 4k computer monitors arriving after 1st Jan too and these would have incurred duty too - but think that threat is gone now since a trade deal was agreed. Amazon are very efficient at collecting all charges at the checkout so don't think you have much worry... one thing I would advise though is for now to stick to items that are "shipped and sold" by Amazon themselves.

Amazon are effectively a logistics company.. and they are very good at it. Wouldn't worry too much with just lashing in your order.

They only deliver in Dublin.

Jim_Hodge

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

They only deliver in Dublin.

Incorrect. I do not live in in Dublin and I have got all of my orders from the past month delivered by the Amazon Logistics white vans.