READ SUMMARY IN POST 986 - Amazon.uk Post-Brexit

shanmo

Sorry if it's been asked but if I ordered something yesterday, which won't be delivered till January, will I be charged a fee when it arrives? Or is it just for order made from January. Sorry if this is a simple question. Thanks.

harmless

shanmo wrote: »

Sorry if it's been asked but if I ordered something yesterday, which won't be delivered till January, will I be charged a fee when it arrives? Or is it just for order made from January. Sorry if this is a simple question. Thanks.

It would seem it depends on the day the item dispatches, so if it ships before the new year you are ok.

Also there may be nothing to worry about depending on who you ordered from. Check to see if you paid VAT at the UK rate or the Irish rate.
If you paid at the Irish rate there will be no issue regardless.

5500

I suspect a lot of people are going to be caught out in the coming weeks. A friend ordered from a UK business that has a .ie domain but isn't vat regged here, his order isn't due for delivery until 5th Jan and worked out at €300 delivered, but am I right now that he'll owe circa 73 extra in charges now once it lands?

He thought he was good to go with the agreement in place but I'd expect a lot of others will be in the same boat too

harmless

5500 wrote: »

I suspect a lot of people are going to be caught out in the coming weeks. A friend ordered from a UK business that has a .ie domain but isn't vat regged here, his order isn't due for delivery until 5th Jan and worked out at €300 delivered, but am I right now that he'll owe circa 73 extra in charges now once it lands?

He thought he was good to go with the agreement in place but I'd expect a lot of others will be in the same boat too

Unfortunately this is true, there is massive confusion amongst the public and even many businesses.
Your calculations of €63 VAT and €10 handling fee are correct.

An post charge €10 minimum handling fee or 1% of the value of the item if it's worth more than €1k

He could cancel right now for a full refund if he wishes.

wozniattack

listermint wrote: »

In fairness to saxo, they seem to only deliver to he countries they have actual presence in. You've been circumventing that entirely with a parcel address.

There is no change for them at all. They were never servicing Ireland in the first place have no local branch here at all. And have no comparison to Amazon at all. So a poor reference point for brexit changes. You asked them do to something theyve never offered.

All their package printing is done in Germany, and then shipped to their other locations' delivery addresses.

I order via .co.uk; it's made and shipped via Germany to the UK.
I order via .es, it's made and shipped vai germany to spain, and so forth for all their sites.

It's so odd.

whiterebel

harmless wrote: »

It would seem it depends on the day the item dispatches, so if it ships before the new year you are ok.

Also there may be nothing to worry about depending on who you ordered from. Check to see if you paid VAT at the UK rate or the Irish rate.
If you paid at the Irish rate there will be no issue regardless.

That has never been the case, and I can’t see it happening now. A customs entry has the vessel/flight/truck and arrival date. A container that left China 4 weeks ago only shows the arrival date in Ireland, and any calculations are made from that date. How would they check the dates that anything left Amazon?

CelticRambler

whiterebel wrote: »

Have you got a link for that? Any import documentation I have ever seen is for the date of arrival in the state, nothing to do with the dates it is in transit.

This is my reference, specifically this part of Article 5.3 Customs status of goods:

Where an economic operator bringing goods from the UK to the customs territory of the Union after the end of the transition period, when presenting the goods to customs at the border between the UK and the Union after the end of that period, can provide proof that the goods are Union goods and that the movement started in the UK or in an EU Member State before the end of the transition period, those goods must be treated as Union goods, i.e. in free circulation in the customs territory of the Union, and do not need to be placed under a customs procedure.

Where, when arriving at the border between the Union and UK after the end of the transition period, the economic operator cannot provide the respective proofs, those goods will be treated as third country goods, i.e. the respective customs debt, VAT and excise duties, where applicable, will have to be paid when those goods are released for free circulation in the customs territory of the Union. Where applicable, import licenses will be required for those ongoing movements without proofs.

CelticRambler

whiterebel wrote: »

That has never been the case, and I can’t see it happening now. A customs entry has the vessel/flight/truck and arrival date. A container that left China 4 weeks ago only shows the arrival date in Ireland, and any calculations are made from that date. How would they check the dates that anything left Amazon?

The last containerised delivery I received from China had every step of the process pasted to the outer packaging, including my consignment's position on the ship!

whiterebel

CelticRambler wrote: »

This is my reference, specifically this part of Article 5.3 Customs status of goods:

Thanks for that. That’s a minefield right there. What will they accept as proof, I wonder, the shippers word?

Brian2011

harmless wrote: »

Unfortunately this is true, there is massive confusion amongst the public and even many businesses.
Your calculations of €63 VAT and €10 handling fee are correct.

An post charge €10 minimum handling fee or 1% of the value of the item if it's worth more than €1k

He could cancel right now for a full refund if he wishes.

Will you have to pay the vat and vat handling fee in cash at your front door when courier or postman comes with your item? Or can you pay it later and collect at post office / Courier depot? Or will there be an option to pay it online?

bdmc5

beauf wrote: »

What used to happen was a lot of UK retailers didn't want the hassle of dealing with Ireland. So they wouldn't deal with you. Parcel Motel solved that problem for many buyers. Now that's gone, I assume we'll go back to not being able to buy from a lot of UK retailers. They won't want the hassle .

Parcel motel is only suspended. DPD confirmed they are cancelling their version but parcel motel could well be back but no doubt more expensive.

However addresspal by an post is still operating . I needed to buy a small item on Amazon UK for less than 10quid yesterday and trying out addresspal now (didn’t ship direct to Irish address) . At 6.50 a pop it isn’t cheap but may stil by a useful alternative?

Brian2011

bdmc5 wrote: »

Parcel motel is only suspended. DPD confirmed they are cancelling their version but parcel motel could well be back but no doubt more expensive.

However addresspal by an post is still operating . I needed to buy a small item on Amazon UK for less than 10quid yesterday and trying out addresspal now (didn’t ship direct to Irish address) . At 6.50 a pop it isn’t cheap but may stil by a useful alternative?

And they are now charging extra €3.50 from 1st January, so that is €10 if I'm correct, which is not cheap anymore!

harmless

Brian2011 wrote: »

Will you have to pay the vat and vat handling fee in cash at your front door when courier or postman comes with your item? Or can you pay it later and collect at post office / Courier depot? Or will there be an option to pay it online?

You will receive an email if you owe any fees.

An post have a section on their site where you can enter the tracking number and pay any VAT or customs owed.
The courier companies also have similar solutions in place.

They won't send the item out for delivery until payment is made.

jpfahy

bdmc5 wrote: »

Parcel motel is only suspended.

Is Parcel Motel suspended?? Nothing on their website. Just bought an item on eBay and used my PM address

harmless

jpfahy wrote: »

Is Parcel Motel suspended?? Nothing on their website. Just bought an item on eBay and used my PM address

Their address in Antrim is suspended, the Dublin address has changed recently but is active.

fritzelly

Brian2011 wrote: »

And they are now charging extra €3.50 from 1st January, so that is €10 if I'm correct, which is not cheap anymore!

They are charging 6.50 for home delivery itself (no collection from the PO)
Then add in all the additional charges

forzacalcio

harmless wrote: »

I'm not sure the government can dictate what charges the courier service set in a free market.


I'll only be ordering from UK business that are VAT registered here or businesses within the EU for now.



I imagine the process of selling to the UK will be the same as the process of selling to other countries outside the EU when it comes to VAT.
At least there are no import tariffs.

This is the thing. I've never had to pay VAT or declare it outside of the EU. I assume this will be the same for the UK? I usually sell for £20 so maybe dropping the price to £19 to go under the UK Vat limit is the way to go (It's €22 I believe)

It's very hard to find out this info. If anyone has any info it would be greatly appreciated.

Brian2011

harmless wrote: »

You will receive an email if you owe any fees.

An post have a section on their site where you can enter the tracking number and pay any VAT or customs owed.
The courier companies also have similar solutions in place.

They won't send the item out for delivery until payment is made.

Have you got a link to that an post section?

But what if the seller did not provide tracking number, say if they used economy delivery like they do all the time on ebay for example?

harmless

Brian2011 wrote: »

Have you got a link to that an post section?

But what if the seller did not provide tracking number, say if they used economy delivery like they do all the time on ebay for example?

https://www.anpost.com/Post-Parcels/Receiving/Pay-Customs-Charge
I know it only says customs charge but I'm fairly sure they can collect VAT here too.


I'm unsure what happens if it is not tracked, could revenue contact you directly perhaps?
I think all sellers will include your email on the parcel going forward, that should sort the issue.

harmless

forzacalcio wrote: »

This is the thing. I've never had to pay VAT or declare it outside of the EU. I assume this will be the same for the UK? I usually sell for £20 so maybe dropping the price to £19 to go under the UK Vat limit is the way to go (It's €22 I believe)

It's very hard to find out this info. If anyone has any info it would be greatly appreciated.

The exemption limit on UK VAT is £15 AFAIK

If you only sell a very small number of items you could mark it as a gift which can be valued up to £35. Of course this would be fraud so I'm not actually recommending it

Remember these limits are a combined total of item value + shipping and insurance.

Brian2011

I am also reading that revenue will not bother to collect vat which is less than €6, so that would mean that the €22 limit really is more like €27

Brian2011

harmless wrote: »

https://www.anpost.com/Post-Parcels/Receiving/Pay-Customs-Charge
I know it only says customs charge but I'm fairly sure they can collect VAT here too.


I'm unsure what happens if it is not tracked, could revenue contact you directly perhaps?
I think all sellers will include your email on the parcel going forward, that should sort the issue.

I'm reading via letter if no email provided

forzacalcio

harmless wrote: »

The exemption limit on UK VAT is £15 AFAIK

If you only sell a very small number of items you could mark it as a gift which can be valued up to £35. Of course this would be fraud so I'm not actually recommending it

Remember these limits are a combined total of item value + shipping and insurance.

No I sell a good few items especially over Christmas. Many via Amazon and Etsy who will charge vat if needed but I also have my own website where it's not as clear cut. I've shut everything down until I know for sure as it's just a total cluster **** at the minute.

Brian2011

Revenue ask for proof of purchase, so I presume you would just take screenshots of your order receipt email or PayPal transaction and email it to them??

TheDriver

harmless wrote: »

It has been stated over and over on here that Irish VAT will continue to be collected by Amazon at the checkout as they are registered for VAT in Ireland.

What makes you think that after Amazon went to the trouble of registering for VAT here that they would stop collecting VAT on behalf of the Irish Government?
It wouldn't make any sense.

I misunderstood that under 22 is exempt from VAT however if someone is registered to take VAT in Ireland, they must do it regardless.

Akrasia

whiterebel wrote: »

That has never been the case, and I can’t see it happening now. A customs entry has the vessel/flight/truck and arrival date. A container that left China 4 weeks ago only shows the arrival date in Ireland, and any calculations are made from that date. How would they check the dates that anything left Amazon?

Also, anything shipped before 1st Jan won’t have any customs documentation, and a lot of items shipped in the first few days in Jan I suspect.

Rather than being charged VAT. II reckon the biggest concern will be getting the delivery at all. Any consignment without full documentation will be a lottery as the infrastructure to process anything other than the most routine parcel is not in place yet.

Will there be discretion applied? Maybe, it might depend on how hungover the supervisor is on the day

kaahooters

Akrasia wrote: »

Also, anything shipped before 1st Jan won’t have any customs documentation, and a lot of items shipped in the first few days in Jan I suspect.

Rather than being charged VAT. II reckon the biggest concern will be getting the delivery at all. Any consignment without full documentation will be a lottery as the infrastructure to process anything other than the most routine parcel is not in place yet.

Will there be discretion applied? Maybe, it might depend on how hungover the supervisor is on the day

the postal infrastructure has always been in place for this, how do you think packages get delivered from outside the eu?

Akrasia

kaahooters wrote: »

the postal infrastructure has always been in place for this, how do you think packages get delivered from outside the eu?

goods from outside the EU come in with customs declarations, so the customs agents can base their calculations on these (with spot checks to keep vendors honest(ish))

Anything shipped from the UK before 1st Jan won’t have a declaration

If I want to post an item to Australia today I need to complete a CP72 or CN22 form to go along with it
This is part of the customs infrastructure

Has the UK already started including customs declarations with their items? Maybe some have, but not all of them

CelticRambler

Akrasia wrote: »

Has the UK already started including customs declarations with their items? Maybe some have, but not all of them

There was a bit of noise made yesterday (carrying over into this morning's Sky news) about the need to fill in and stick onto your destination EU parcels either a CN22 or CN23 declaration. But whether or not people were awake and sober enough to understand what they were being told is another matter.

It might be worth remembering that this works both ways - all packages to the UK from Ireland/EU now need a CN22 or CN23 aswell (although the Trade Deal documentation indicates that the UK will not fully enforce the rules for a while yet ... because they're not ready :pac: )

kaahooters

Akrasia wrote: »

Has the UK already started including customs declarations with their items? Maybe some have, but not all of them

no, as they were still in negotiations and it wouldnt come into effect untill january 1st and not applicaple untill january 1st.
however, my point still stands, the infrastructure is in place to deal with this, i dont understand why you think it isnt.