READ SUMMARY IN POST 986 - Amazon.uk Post-Brexit

runswithascript

I have read:

Despite the customs checks, this trade deal means that there will be no tariffs or quotas on British goods going between the UK and the EU – the first time the EU has agreed to a zero-tariff, zero-quota deal.

Is this accurate and we can keep ordering from the Amazon and eBay in the UK without incurring any extra charges, whether that is to Parcel Motel in NI or directly to ROI?

Edit: Just found Buying From Amazon UK After Brexit

wozniattack

Has the revenue.ie site not been updated yet following the Brexit trade deal?

It still says we have to pay Customs, and Excise Duties buying from the UK starting end of the week.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/buying-of-goods-online-for-personal-use/buying-goods-from-outside-the-eu.aspx

listermint

wozniattack wrote: »

Has the revenue.ie site not been updated yet following the Brexit trade deal?

It still says we have to pay Customs, and Excise Duties buying from the UK starting end of the week.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/buying-of-goods-online-for-personal-use/buying-goods-from-outside-the-eu.aspx

It doesn't say that it says MAY.

And this is accurate and can also be dependent on rules of origin.


There's nothing inaccurate about the content on the page.

Akrasia

kaahooters wrote: »

no, as they were still in negotiations and it wouldnt come into effect untill january 1st and not applicaple untill january 1st.
however, my point still stands, the infrastructure is in place to deal with this, i dont understand why you think it isnt.

The infrastructure includes the customs declarations

A sudden increase of hundreds of thousands of items that require manual processing because they didn’t have the paperwork will result in significant delays and many items getting lost in transit. That’s what I meant

wozniattack

listermint wrote: »

It doesn't say that it says MAY.

And this is accurate and can also be dependent on rules of origin.


There's nothing inaccurate about the content on the page.

I messaged them, since I'm not sure what'll happen to items I ordered 3 weeks ago.

I paid UK VAT while they were still in the customs union. Items were rejected at border due to the COVID border closing, and returned to sender.

So I likely I won't get them until next week now. Worried I'll get charged 21% VAT on them, and they're valued at €505.

rm212

This is an absolute mess with little transparency on exactly how things will be handled.

Technically speaking you could make the argument that anything bought before 31/12/20 which had UK VAT charged on it, is VAT paid in an EU member state (as the UK is up to that time) and so it should not be subject to import VAT on entry into Ireland.

CelticRambler

rm212 wrote: »

Technically speaking you could make the argument that anything bought before 31/12/20 which had UK VAT charged on it, is VAT paid in an EU member state (as the UK is up to that time) and so it should not be subject to import VAT on entry into Ireland.

You don't need to argue anything - it's all laid out for you in 1200-odd pages of text published and available to read for free. We've known about this hard end-date for six months (when the UK rejected the offer to extend) and we've known that it was going to be a total mess on the UK side (because they didn't prepare for it) so there isn't really any excuse for people to be getting in a state over orders placed at the last minute.

Mind you, it does seem like those worst affected are those who were using creative solutions - like Parcel Motel - to get around existing restrictions. As with all such workarounds, if/when circumstances change, there's a high risk of the workaround failing. Such is life.

Akrasia

rm212 wrote: »

This is an absolute mess with little transparency on exactly how things will be handled.

Technically speaking you could make the argument that anything bought before 31/12/20 which had UK VAT charged on it, is VAT paid in an EU member state (as the UK is up to that time) and so it should not be subject to import VAT on entry into Ireland.

Have you ever argued with a customs officer?

Their job is to make sure items obey the customs regulations at the point of crossing the border. They don’t care if you bought it 2 days or 6 months before and it got delayed in shipping

My wife bought me a 3D printer off Kickstarter 3 years ago, assuming a miracle happens and it finally ships next month, will the customs be processed as of the rules on the date of purchase or the date it crosses the border

whiterebel

Akrasia wrote: »

Have you ever argued with a customs officer?

Their job is to make sure items obey the customs regulations at the point of crossing the border. They don’t care if you bought it 2 days or 6 months before and it got delayed in shipping

My wife bought me a 3D printer off Kickstarter 3 years ago, assuming a miracle happens and it finally ships next month, will the customs be processed as of the rules on the date of purchase or the date it crosses the border

I thought so too, but post #492 seems to say otherwise:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115731606&postcount=492

Mind you, I don't know how they'll view 3 years.....

rm212

Akrasia wrote: »

Have you ever argued with a customs officer?

Their job is to make sure items obey the customs regulations at the point of crossing the border. They don’t care if you bought it 2 days or 6 months before and it got delayed in shipping

My wife bought me a 3D printer off Kickstarter 3 years ago, assuming a miracle happens and it finally ships next month, will the customs be processed as of the rules on the date of purchase or the date it crosses the border

Yes, and at the time of crossing the border, regardless of when that is (before or after 01/01/2021), they will be inspecting an item which had VAT paid in an EU member state as per the invoice and thus should not be subject to VAT on entry.

An item purchased in the UK prior to 01/01/2020 will be an item which was purchased in an EU member state (with EU VAT paid), regardless of when it actually crosses the border. The post with the legal documentation (492) linked here previously actually seems to corroborate that.

CelticRambler

whiterebel wrote: »

I thought so too, but post #492 seems to say otherwise

On the contrary - the rules are clear: the product hasn't been handed to transporter and is unlikely to be so before 2300 on the 31st, therefore it's subject to the full weight of the new import procedures.

In this particular case, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the item is going to pass the rules-or-origin test and get it's CE certificate.

whiterebel

CelticRambler wrote: »

On the contrary - the rules are clear: the product hasn't been handed to transporter and is unlikely to be so before 2300 on the 31st, therefore it's subject to the full weight of the new import procedures.

In this particular case, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the item is going to pass the rules-or-origin test and get it's CE certificate.

I thought we were talking about things in transit before 31st December?

Quackster

Brian2011 wrote: »

What about private smaller sellers on the Amazon website? They probably won't bother registering for Irish Vat, so I think it would be items only directly sold from Amazon and not the private sellers on there if you get me.

From 1st July, a new EU law means Amazon will have to collect Irish VAT on behalf of all their Marketplace sellers, regardless of where in the world they are based or are shipping their products from.

What happens in the meantime is up to Amazon but as things stand they collect Irish VAT on behalf of their 'fulfilled by Amazon' sellers anyway. UK-based Marketplace sellers that handle their own shipping are probably just going to not offer shipping outside the UK anymore.

5500

5500 wrote: »

I suspect a lot of people are going to be caught out in the coming weeks. A friend ordered from a UK business that has a .ie domain but isn't vat regged here, his order isn't due for delivery until 5th Jan and worked out at €300 delivered, but am I right now that he'll owe circa 73 extra in charges now once it lands?

He thought he was good to go with the agreement in place but I'd expect a lot of others will be in the same boat too

Just to update this, I told my friend about the above and he sent a mail this morning querying but got a reply back saying that all the merchants prices include the correct VAT to Ireland, The merchant is buyitdirect ie, big enough retailer in the UK but I don't know if I'd trust a 1 liner from a customer service rep myself

Quackster

Brian2011 wrote: »

I am also reading that revenue will not bother to collect vat which is less than €6, so that would mean that the €22 limit really is more like €27

Yes. But remember that's gone from July 1st next year.

Quackster

harmless wrote: »

The exemption limit on UK VAT is £15 AFAIK

If you only sell a very small number of items you could mark it as a gift which can be valued up to £35. Of course this would be fraud so I'm not actually recommending it

Remember these limits are a combined total of item value + shipping and insurance.

The UK is abolishing Low Value Consignment Relief from the 1st January so UK VAT will be due on all vatable imports, no matter how low their value.

harmless

Quackster wrote: »

The UK is abolishing Low Value Consignment Relief from the 1st January so UK VAT will be due on all vatable imports, no matter how small their value.

That's unfortunate but not surprising.

Does this include gifts?

VG31

Quackster wrote: »

What happens in the meantime is up to Amazon but as things stand they collect Irish VAT on behalf of their 'fulfilled by Amazon' sellers anyway. UK-based Marketplace sellers that handle their own shipping are probably just going to not offer shipping outside the UK anymore.

Are you sure about this? I added the same DVD to the basket twice, one sold by Amazon and the other fulfilled by Amazon. The former went up slightly in price because of the Irish VAT rate but the latter's price didn't change.

Quackster

CelticRambler wrote: »

There was a bit of noise made yesterday (carrying over into this morning's Sky news) about the need to fill in and stick onto your destination EU parcels either a CN22 or CN23 declaration. But whether or not people were awake and sober enough to understand what they were being told is another matter.

It might be worth remembering that this works both ways - all packages to the UK from Ireland/EU now need a CN22 or CN23 aswell (although the Trade Deal documentation indicates that the UK will not fully enforce the rules for a while yet ... because they're not ready :pac: )

Only to GB from Ireland. Packages to NI are exempt. I wonder what the story is for EU to NI, and vice versa, where they're routed through GB..??

Quackster

kaahooters wrote: »

no, as they were still in negotiations and it wouldnt come into effect untill january 1st and not applicaple untill january 1st.
however, my point still stands, the infrastructure is in place to deal with this, i dont understand why you think it isnt.

Amazon UK certainly wasn't waiting around for a deal to be agreed. Customs declaration on a box I received from GB a few days before Christmas.

Quackster

wozniattack wrote: »

Has the revenue.ie site not been updated yet following the Brexit trade deal?

It still says we have to pay Customs, and Excise Duties buying from the UK starting end of the week.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/buying-of-goods-online-for-personal-use/buying-goods-from-outside-the-eu.aspx

Excise duty applies even if you're buying from another EU country. Only exception to this is when you carry the exciseable goods into the country on your own person.

harmless

Quackster wrote: »

Excise duty applies even if you're buying from another EU country. Only exception to this is when you carry the exciseable goods into the country on your own person.

Revenue also warns possible customs duty on items over €150 from the UK....

Quackster

harmless wrote: »

That's unfortunate but not surprising.

Does this include gifts?

As far as I'm aware, this does not affect gift relief, which remains at £39.

Quackster

VG31 wrote: »

Are you sure about this? I added the same DVD to the basket twice, one sold by Amazon and the other fulfilled by Amazon. The former went up slightly in price because of the Irish VAT rate but the latter's price didn't change.

Sorry, you're right. Only sellers exceeding the €75k-a-year rule are liable.

I seem to recall though, someone mentioning on this or another thread that they are a Marketplace seller and got an email from Amazon to the effect that Amazon will be charging the appropriate VAT rates from January. I guess we'll just have to keep an eye on what rate of VAT Amazon applies to 'fulfilled by Amazon' sellers come January 1st.

ussjtrunks

What is the point of a trade deal where I need to pay similar fees to if I ordered from the us or japan?

CelticRambler

ussjtrunks wrote: »

What is the point of a trade deal where I need to pay similar fees to if I ordered from the us or japan?

Ask the UK negotiating team - they're the ones that set the conditions for the thinnest possible trade deal. There are still loads of things you can no longer import at all now, never mind whether or not you'll be hit with VAT and customs charges.

whiterebel wrote: »

I thought we were talking about things in transit before 31st December?

In transit, yes; but in Akrasia's case, the items are not in transit:

Akrasia wrote: »

My wife bought me a 3D printer off Kickstarter 3 years ago, assuming a miracle happens and it finally ships next month, will the customs be processed as of the rules on the date of purchase or the date it crosses the border

It doesn't matter whether you've paid for the items, made them yourself, or had them in the family for seven hundred years, as of Jan 1st, anything taken out of the UK is an export and subject to third country rules. The "in transit" exemption is there specifically to resolve issues arising from orders in this change-over period (especially with Covid control measures complicating the situation) - but items not already on the move, by default, become "third country imports" from Jan 1.

Furthermore, all certificates of conformity and the like expire on 31st December, and anything that needs one has to be re-certified prior to being put into circulation within the Union. That's where putting an accurate description of the package contents on the CN22/23 comes in, too, and where suppliers risk messing things up for their EU customers: too vague a description or leaving out their own exporter details, or the country-of-origin code could (could) result in the package being diverted to the needs-inspection pile.

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

Only to GB from Ireland. Packages to NI are exempt. I wonder what the story is for EU to NI, and vice versa, where they're routed through GB..??

Packages from IE to NI are exempt; packages from GB to NI are not exempt. For the purposes of GB->NI movement, as per the Withdrawal Agreement, the NI customer is considered to be an EU customer unless they can satisfy the EU that there is no risk of the imported product ending up in the EU after delivery to NI.

Here's the UK Govt's position on the matter:

From 1 January 2021, you will need to make declarations and may need to pay any tariffs due when bringing goods into Northern Ireland from Great Britain or from outside the EU.

...

Before you move goods
If you plan to move goods between Northern Ireland and non-EU countries (including Great Britain), you’ll need an EORI number that starts with XI.

If you plan to move goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, or bring goods into Northern Ireland from outside the UK, you can sign up for the free Trader Support Service.

If you’re not using the Trader Support Service, you can get someone to deal with customs for you, or find a training provider to help you.

If you import goods into Northern Ireland and want to declare your goods not ‘at risk’ so that EU duty will not be payable on those goods, you’ll need to apply for an authorisation for the UK Trader Scheme.

If you import goods regularly, you can apply for a duty deferment account to delay paying most customs charges.

To understand any duty or other measures that apply to your goods, you’ll need to find the right commodity code to make your customs declaration when you bring goods in or send goods out of Northern Ireland.

ussjtrunks

This all sounds like the trade deal was completely pointless

harmless

ussjtrunks wrote: »

This all sounds like the trade deal was completely pointless

It was very important for the businesses that manufacture and sell goods that normally attract tariffs.

Quackster

CelticRambler wrote: »

Packages from IE to NI are exempt; packages from GB to NI are not exempt. For the purposes of GB->NI movement, as per the Withdrawal Agreement, the NI customer is considered to be an EU customer unless they can satisfy the EU that there is no risk of the imported product ending up in the EU after delivery to NI.

Here's the UK Govt's position on the matter:

Yep, that's clear and could work to Parcel Motel's advantage if they were to resume their UK service. It would mean that parcels received into their NI depot from GB would have already cleared customs and they could route them onwards to Dublin without any additional action on their part needed.

What I'm wondering is what happens with a parcel sent from, say, Germany to NI (or vice versa) through the postal system which would involve it transiting through GB. Customs declaration needed in this case? Will Royal Mail have to keep such parcels completely separate from parcels with a GB origin/destination so they don't unnecessarily go through customs?