READ SUMMARY IN POST 986 - Amazon.uk Post-Brexit

harmless

Quackster wrote: »

Yep, that's clear and could work to Parcel Motel's advantage if they were to resume their UK service. It would mean that parcels received into their NI depot from GB would have already cleared customs and they could route them onwards to Dublin without any additional action on their part needed.

The Northern Ireland Protocol confirmed that goods from Great Britain which remain in the UK’s customs territory will not be subject to tariffs. However, goods ‘at risk’ of entering the EU’s single market will pay EU tariffs.

So goods with a Parcel Motel address wouldn't be considered ‘at risk’ of entering the EU’s single market?

Quackster

harmless wrote: »

So goods with a Parcel Motel address wouldn't be considered ‘at risk’ of entering the EU’s single market?

Yeah, they would, but my understanding is that all consignments from GB have to be processed by customs on arrival in Northern Ireland, before delivery to Parcel Motel or whatever NI address they're destined for. No customs formalities will apply between NI and ROI.

I could be wrong on that though.

ArthurG

ussjtrunks wrote: »

This all sounds like the trade deal was completely pointless

The trade deal (in part at least) relates to quotas and tariffs on good and services between the UK and EU valued in the 100’s of billions. They probably weren’t terribly concerned with a few million quid worth of Amazon goods moving to Ireland. The materiality of that trade is inconsequential in the greater scheme of things.

Quackster

ArthurG wrote: »

The trade deal (in part at least) relates to quotas and tariffs on good and services between the UK and EU valued in the 100’s of billions. They probably weren’t terribly concerned with a few million quid worth of Amazon goods moving to Ireland.

Well there is no issue with Amazon goods (except items that they won't ship to ROI). It's buying from the small independent specialist UK retailer that's been completely kiboshed.

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

What I'm wondering is what happens with a parcel sent from, say, Germany to NI (or vice versa) through the postal system which would involve it transiting through GB. Customs declaration needed in this case? Will Royal Mail have to keep such parcels completely separate from parcels with a GB origin/destination so they don't unnecessarily go through customs?

Funnily enough, those clever lads in Brussels are way ahead of you, and not only is the process described in black and white on Page 38 of the previously linked document, they've even used Germany to NI as an example:

Example 2: Germany via France and Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

The OoD is situated in Germany and the goods leave the EU via a ferry port in France. The first OoT is situated in the ferry port of arrival in Great Britain. The transit procedure continues in Great Britain to the ferry port where the goods enter a ferry with destination Northern Ireland. In the ferry port in Great Britain when leaving Great Britain no formalities are required. When entering a port in Northern Ireland the formalities of the OoT are applied.

Example 3: Germany via the Netherlands, Great Britain and Ireland to Northern Ireland.

The OoD is situated in Germany and the goods leave the EU via a ferry port in the Netherlands. The first OoT is situated in the ferry port of arrival in Great Britain. The transit procedure continues in Great Britain to the ferry port where the goods enter a ferry with destination Ireland. At arrival in Ireland, the formalities of the OoT are applied. The transit procedure continues in Ireland and the goods pass the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland without any customs formalities. The goods are presented at the office of destination in Northern Ireland.

Slight off-topic observation: the EU guidance is (to the limit that I've read it so far) 100% complete and describes the rules, requirements, prohibitions and procedures for 100% of all imaginable scenarios. The UK Govt publications are (as of 29th December) still riddled with variations on the theme of "to be confirmed in due course ... "

raclle

Still so much uncertainty in this thread. After Jan 1st I might hold off ordering anything until its clear what's happening.

I received this email from parcel motel earlier:

Following our important notification about Brexit impact shared with you on December 18th, we would like to remind with you that as of tomorrow, our virtual address services in the UK will be temporarily suspended. Starting 28th December, we will no longer accept deliveries at the UK virtual address: 1a McKinney Road, Newtownabbey, UK.

Don’t forget that return shipments to the UK will only be accepted until December 30th. To avoid additional charges, ensure that you send your returns ahead of this date.
If you’ve missed the cut off date, be sure to check the retailer’s website or coordinate with the retailer directly for their recommended returns method or visit UPS.com to send a parcel.

In addition, remember to update your address on all of the websites where currently the UK virtual address is saved as your default delivery address.

The good news is, you can continue to use the Irish virtual address (below) to collect your packages at the Parcel Motel locker near you and continue to take advantage of our contactless, convenient, and sustainable deliveries. And the good news doesn’t end there, to thank our customers for doing their part to reduce their environmental impact by using our lockers, we are offering a promotional rate of € 3.25 (instead of € 4.50) from January 1st 2021.

Your new Irish Virtual Address:
name
PMxxx
UPS Customer Centre
Unit 5 Mygan Park
Jamestown Road
Finglas East
Dublin 11, D11

Still have questions about these new changes? Please click here for more information.

We will reach out as soon as possible with some exciting news about new delivery options to come in 2021.

og2k7

raclle wrote: »

Still so much uncertainty in this thread. After Jan 1st I might hold off ordering anything until its clear what's happening.

I received this email from parcel motel earlier:

Following our important notification about Brexit impact shared with you on December 18th, we would like to remind with you that as of tomorrow, our virtual address services in the UK will be temporarily suspended. Starting 28th December, we will no longer accept deliveries at the UK virtual address: 1a McKinney Road, Newtownabbey, UK.

Don’t forget that return shipments to the UK will only be accepted until December 30th. To avoid additional charges, ensure that you send your returns ahead of this date.
If you’ve missed the cut off date, be sure to check the retailer’s website or coordinate with the retailer directly for their recommended returns method or visit UPS.com to send a parcel.

In addition, remember to update your address on all of the websites where currently the UK virtual address is saved as your default delivery address.

The good news is, you can continue to use the Irish virtual address (below) to collect your packages at the Parcel Motel locker near you and continue to take advantage of our contactless, convenient, and sustainable deliveries. And the good news doesn’t end there, to thank our customers for doing their part to reduce their environmental impact by using our lockers, we are offering a promotional rate of € 3.25 (instead of € 4.50) from January 1st 2021.

Your new Irish Virtual Address:
name
UPS Customer Centre
Unit 5 Mygan Park
Jamestown Road
Finglas East
Dublin 11, D11

Still have questions about these new changes? Please click here for more information.

We will reach out as soon as possible with some exciting news about new delivery options to come in 2021.

You might want to remove your pm number

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

Yeah, they would, but my understanding is that all consignments from GB have to be processed by customs on arrival in Northern Ireland, before delivery to Parcel Motel or whatever NI address they're destined for. No customs formalities will apply between NI and ROI.

I could be wrong on that though.

No, you're right. The problem is not the NI end of things - it's at the merchant end. They have to be prepared to set themselves up as an exporter, get all the right authorisations for export to NI/EU, probably sign up for the one-stop-shop EU VAT system and complete all the necessary quarterly declarations. Someone who, to date, couldn't even be bothered to put an Irish address on their envelope just isn't going to bother. Far easier to lump NI in with the Outer Hebrides and other places that are frequently excluded from free UK delivery. Or just say "GB only"

raclle

og2k7 wrote: »

You might want to remove your pm number

Thanks. Can you edit yours too

Quackster

CelticRambler wrote: »

Funnily enough, those clever lads in Brussels are way ahead of you, and not only is the process described in black and white on Page 38 of the previously linked document, they've even used Germany to NI as an example:



Slight off-topic observation: the EU guidance is (to the limit that I've read it so far) 100% complete and describes the rules, requirements, prohibitions and procedures for 100% of all imaginable scenarios. The UK Govt publications are (as of 29th December) still riddled with variations on the theme of "to be confirmed in due course ... "

I'm glad you've the stamina to read that document from cover to cover cos I certainly don't! :pac:

Still, the info in that, as elsewhere, is very much geared at businesses importing/exporting. It doesn't clarify the minutiae of how a parcel from a business in Germany to a private individual in Northern Ireland will be handled by Royal Mail as it transits through GB.

And, as you say, UK Government channels still have feck-all info available on precise procedures in various circumstances from their standpoint.

og2k7

raclle wrote: »

Thanks. Can you edit yours too

Done now.

I checked some of the websites i used in the past: smaller companies removed international shipping completely, bigger ones have 25 quid for shipping (Albeit temporarily they say)

I am really curious what PM will come up with. My thinking is that UPS wouldn't have bought them of they didn't have some sort of a plan?

harmless

og2k7 wrote: »

I am really curious what PM will come up with. My thinking is that UPS wouldn't have bought them of they didn't have some sort of a plan?

Was parcel motel nightlines main source of income or value before the UPS takeover?
Do we know if UPS has any interest in parcel motel?

SCOOP 64

Got the same email, now to this address ,
Your new Irish Virtual Address:
name
PMxxx
UPS Customer Centre
Unit 5 Mygan Park
Jamestown Road
Finglas East
Dublin 11,
i must be missing the point?, i might as well use my home address, the point for me was to use the UK address for cheaper delivery to Ireland.

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

Still, the info in that, as elsewhere, is very much geared at businesses importing/exporting. It doesn't clarify the minutiae of how a parcel from a business in Germany to a private individual in Northern Ireland will be handled by Royal Mail as it transits through the UK.

That's because (a) it doesn't matter a jot whether you're a multi-million pound business or someone on minimum wage, you're still an importer so all the same rules apply; and (b) the EU doesn't really care about how the Royal Mail deals with the problem of NI packages transiting GB as long as they follow the rules that have been agreed.

This takes us back to the attitude of GB merchants (or indeed Germans, if we take the earlier example of Saxoprint) to their wider market. Are their EU customers worth worrying about? If so, they'll sign themselves up as an authorised exporter, fill in the forms, and do everything they can to make a sale. From Friday onwards, it doesn't matter whether they're selling to Ireland, Northern Ireland or Romania, the process is the same.

Additionally, from Jan 1st, anyone purchasing anything from GB for delivery to NI becomes an importer, but in the case of the NI->Dublin Parcel Motel service the importer into NI is not based in NI, so they can't provide any of the guarantees required to allow NI-only imports. This part of PM's service - using NI as a back door to Ireland/the Single Market - is almost exactly what the EU wanted to block, and got Boris Johnson to agree to the new rules already more than a year ago.

harmless

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i must be missing the point?, i might as well use my home address, the point for me was to use the UK address for cheaper delivery to Ireland.

The change of address in Ireland is because of the UPS takeover.

Did you get the email about brexit?

Virtual address in the UK temporarily suspended
Following the Brexit impact, we would like to share with you that as of December 28th, our virtual address services in the UK will be temporarily suspended. This means that from this date, we will no longer accept deliveries at the UK virtual address: 1a McKinney Road, Newtownabbey, UK. We are working diligently to update our product offering in order to adapt to the latest trade requirements as they come to conclusion and better serve your shopping needs. You will receive further updates in the coming weeks.

Operating this service out of NI has just got much more complicated.
Some people don't live near an post locker and will still use parcel motel lockers with the item shipped to the address in Ireland.

SCOOP 64

harmless wrote: »

Operating this service out of NI has just got much more complicated.
Some people don't live near an post locker and will still use parcel motel lockers with the item shipped to the address in Ireland.

Why not just use there home address now, as this has no benefit?

harmless

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Why not just use there home address now, as this has no benefit?

Some people are very rarely at home or live in an apartment where delivery's are not secure.

paddy19

I can't see UPS trying any funny stuff to act as a back door for goods from the UK to the RoI via NI.

They are an international freight company, part of their business model is understanding the customs/duty rules and applying them on behalf of Governments around the world.

They make money by knowing and applying the rules and charging customers a premium for this service.

The folks in An Post addresspal seem to continuing as normal but anything over the revenue limits will be hit by customs and tough if you have already paid UK VAT.

Think of the UK the same as China and you'll know what to expect.

We may look back on the great days of VAT free PM and addresspal shipments.

Feck Boris and his Brexiteers!

westyIrl

paddy19 wrote: »

Think of the UK the same as China and you'll know what to expect.

We may look back on the great days of VAT free PM and addresspal shipments.

Feck Boris and his Brexiteers!

True. Hopefully some one of them will see a business case and improve on the value Addresspal seems to offer from Jan 1st. In the meantime add in the abolision of the €22 VAT exemption by the EU in July and it's bye bye to all these cheap aliexpress, china-ebay orders. To be fair ordering for two months ahead, by which time I would be at something completely different, was folly so I'll probably save money!

Jim

TheDriver

Quackster wrote: »

Well there is no issue with Amazon goods (except items that they won't ship to ROI). It's buying from the small independent specialist UK retailer that's been completely kiboshed.

Forget the small. I'm wondering about M&S/Next/Mountain Warehouse etc etc. Even though most have Irish stores, the online business is conducted by their UK parent and I cannot find VAT rates etc or any sort of customs statements on a lot of their websites. Some have returns addresses as a PO number in portlaoise.
I am not ordering off any crowd for a short while until it calms down, except Amazon whereby I know I have paid IRL VAT, they collect for IRL govt and they are doing proper customs declarations.
It's ironic that people always give out about the small adjustment amazon make due to the VAT difference over the last few years whereas now it's making things very clear.

harmless

It would seem there were a very large number of UK companies selling way over €75,000 in goods per year to Ireland and not registering for VAT.

Why did revenue never do something about this?

Quackster

westyIrl wrote: »

True. Hopefully some one of them will see a business case and improve on the value Addresspal seems to offer from Jan 1st. In the meantime add in the abolision of the €22 VAT exemption by the EU in July and it's bye bye to all these cheap aliexpress, china-ebay orders. To be fair ordering for two months ahead, by which time I would be at something completely different, was folly so I'll probably save money!

Jim

To be fair, 21% VAT on the price of cheap Chinese tat won't be too hard to stomach.

The real pain for me will be the inability to buy from UK retailers that don't ship here, unless I pay AddressPal 'silly' money for the privilege (versus what it's costing me now).

harmless

Has anyone here actually paid VAT or Duty on goods from China?
I semi-frequently order items from China with a value €50 - €100 and never had VAT or duty charged, although I know it was a possibility.

It's a very different situation with the UK where it's in the delivery services best interest to make sure this is paid as they get €10 each time.

Jim_Hodge

harmless wrote: »

Has anyone here actually paid VAT or Duty on goods from China?
I semi-frequently order items from China with a value €50 - €100 and never had VAT or duty charged, although I know it was a possibility.

It's a very different situation with the UK where it's in the delivery services best interest to make sure this is paid as they get €10 each time.

Most from China are through An Post and for a long time they never seemed to collect anything.

geminiman63

harmless wrote: »

Has anyone here actually paid VAT or Duty on goods from China?
I semi-frequently order items from China with a value €50 - €100 and never had VAT or duty charged, although I know it was a possibility.

It's a very different situation with the UK where it's in the delivery services best interest to make sure this is paid as they get €10 each time.

I have

Thank you for your eMail. Customs Charges are due on your package. The charges and the expected delivery date are set out below. The charges can be paid to the postperson on delivery by cash (exact amount) or cheque/postal order made payable to “An Post”. Please note payment is not accepted by credit, debit or laser card. If you are not in when An Post call, they will leave a note in your letterbox advising where to collect your parcel and pay the charges. Any queries or questions relating to the delivery of your package should be directed to An Post Customer Service at 1850 575859 (wwwan Post.com) quoting your Track and Trace number. The current handling charge from an Post is currently €10.00 If you have any queries in realation to this charge please contact an Post on 1850575859 or 01 7057600

Please keep label attached to your packet as proof of payment of VAT paid (your Receipt).

Total Value of Goods - €82.93

Customs Duty - €0.00
VAT @ 23% - €19.07
An Post Fee - €10.00
Total for Collection - €29.07

Expected Delivery Date Wednesday 15th January 2020
M Burke
Customs Officer, Dublin Mail Centre
:eek:

CelticRambler

harmless wrote: »

Has anyone here actually paid VAT or Duty on goods from China?

I have

Mind you, it was something big and expensive (and accompanied by about forty pages of very detailed conformity documentation). I've never had to pay any additional charges on small packages though, even those with a value of several tens of EUR/USD.

listermint

UK government finally releases information to UK retailers. With just over two days left to go..

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1344020987461967873

Car99

TheDriver wrote: »

Forget the small. I'm wondering about M&S/Next/Mountain Warehouse etc etc. Even though most have Irish stores, the online business is conducted by their UK parent and I cannot find VAT rates etc or any sort of customs statements on a lot of their websites. Some have returns addresses as a PO number in portlaoise.
I am not ordering off any crowd for a short while until it calms down, except Amazon whereby I know I have paid IRL VAT, they collect for IRL govt and they are doing proper customs declarations.
It's ironic that people always give out about the small adjustment amazon make due to the VAT difference over the last few years whereas now it's making things very clear.

Have you previous receipts for goods shipped to ireland pre covid. If so you can check the vat rate applied to your purchase . 23% ireland . 20%UK.

M&S.ie charge Irish vat rates https://www.marksandspencer.com/ie/c/faqs/vat-reduction

harmless

Have the Irish government also issued guidelines that are as clear as mud?

andrewfaulk

harmless wrote: »

Was parcel motel nightlines main source of income or value before the UPS takeover?
Do we know if UPS has any interest in parcel motel?

No, nightline did a lot of deliveries outside of parcel motel.. Alcohol, cigarettes and other excisable goods seemed to be one of their specialities