Taoiseach shocked and dismayed at Sinn Fein TDs tweet on IRA attacks

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Opposing same sex marriage does not necessarily equate to homophobia.

Maybe you should start listening to the real victims of the policies he was espousing.
It wasn't just legislation on Same Sex Marraige but alos on adoption for gay couples.

He was doubling down/consolidating on decades of homophobic persecution and denial of rights to LGBT people. He put his party/government before who he was himself.

If Stanley's tweet can be called homophobic and his stated intentions ignored, then LGBT people have every right to call what he did homophobic - cause and effect. You and he can protest all you want. You can't have it every which way.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

No-one made Leo come out and make a speech opposing same sex marriage while he was in the closet, he did it, and the subsequent U-turn for political capital, and to further his own career, that is the bloody point!

Here we go again, someone posting that Leo comes out for political capital. Another snide attack.

A suggestion that takes no account of his traditional family background, of the difficulties in Ireland of being LGBTQ in public life. Over the years, there have been quite a number of gay politicians, some of whom have hidden it deeply, with sham marriages. A senior politician coming out is big news and another step forward for gay rights.

Get over it, and move on.

Nobotty

McMurphy wrote: »

No-one made Leo come out and make a speech opposing same sex marriage while he was in the closet, he did it, and the subsequent U-turn for political capital, and to further his own career, that is the bloody point!

Fully disagree, with all due respect
A lot of peoples coming out journey started with that referendum campaign
Its an easy target to draw for sure for those not at the coalface of the closet but very wokeist
T.D's are people too

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe you should start listening to the real victims of the policies he was espousing.
It wasn't just legislation on Same Sex Marraige but alos on adoption for gay couples.

He was doubling down/consolidating on decades of homophobic persecution and denial of rights to LGBT people. He put his party/government before who he was himself.

If Stanley's tweet can be called homophobic and his stated intentions ignored, then LGBT people have every right to call what he did homophobic - cause and effect. You and he can protest all you want. You can't have it every which way.

Your post displays zero understanding of those who faced difficulties in accepting who they are and coming out as gay. There is no empathy shown towards people in those situations, many of whom now look to Leo as a role model.

Ireland2020

blanch152 wrote: »

Your post displays zero understanding of those who faced difficulties in accepting who they are and coming out as gay. There is no empathy shown towards people in those situations, many of whom now look to Leo as a role model.

Many also see him as a liar which is why he led FG to their 2nd worst election ever

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Your post displays zero understanding of those who faced difficulties in accepting who they are and coming out as gay. There is no empathy shown towards people in those situations, many of whom now look to Leo as a role model.

Just relaying what other LGBT people are saying. When it was required by a politician to show empathy he failed them. Simple as.

No problem understanding he might have been afraid, no problem at all with that, everyone has had times in their life when it takes courage to stand up and be counted.

But 'silence' as I have said to you before, can be seen as supporting. And it is by many LGBT people. Which you would know if you listened to them and not the faux outrage woke element.

marieholmfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe you should start listening to the real victims of the policies he was espousing.
It wasn't just legislation on Same Sex Marraige but alos on adoption for gay couples.

He was doubling down/consolidating on decades of homophobic persecution and denial of rights to LGBT people. He put his party/government before who he was himself.

If Stanley's tweet can be called homophobic and his stated intentions ignored, then LGBT people have every right to call what he did homophobic - cause and effect. You and he can protest all you want. You can't have it every which way.

Varadkar is a sociopath/ psychopath. To him other people are merely vehicles for his ambition.

marieholmfan

blanch152 wrote: »

Here we go again, someone posting that Leo comes out for political capital. Another snide attack.

A suggestion that takes no account of his traditional family background, of the difficulties in Ireland of being LGBTQ in public life. Over the years, there have been quite a number of gay politicians, some of whom have hidden it deeply, with sham marriages. A senior politician coming out is big news and another step forward for gay rights.

Get over it, and move on.

His socialist father and his liberal mother?
Yes very very Traditional.


You know what post reported Varadkar's family background isn't traditional. His father is a socialist , his parents are from different countries, cultures and religions. There is no evidence that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality -- in this context the post is clearly racist dogwhistling.

FrancieBrady

marieholmfan wrote: »

His socialist father and his liberal mother?
Yes very very Traditional.


You know what post reported Varadkar's family background isn't traditional. His father is a socialist , his parents are from different countries, cultures and religions. There is no evidence that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality -- in this context the post is clearly racist dogwhistling.

Stereotyping race...pretty bolt on racism there alright.

Why did you do that blanch? What evidence have you that he comes from a 'traditional' background?

McMurphy

Nobotty wrote: »

Fully disagree, with all due respect
A lot of peoples coming out journey started with that referendum campaign
Its an easy target to draw for sure for those not at the coalface of the closet but very wokeist
T.D's are people too

You fully disagree?

So who made Leo make the speech against same sex marriage?

Ireland2020

McMurphy wrote: »

You fully disagree?

So who made Leo make the speech against same sex marriage?

Sinn Fein

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just relaying what other LGBT people are saying. When it was required by a politician to show empathy he failed them. Simple as.

No problem understanding he might have been afraid, no problem at all with that, everyone has had times in their life when it takes courage to stand up and be counted.

But 'silence' as I have said to you before, can be seen as supporting. And it is by many LGBT people. Which you would know if you listened to them and not the faux outrage woke element.

My point though is it's not 'simple as'

LGBT activists are divided actually
Those that are in leftwing parties picking up the wokeist gauntlet and fire it in the main in this way
Its a tiny tiny tiny vocal element in the LGBT population and petty IMO.some used be causing grief for people coming out as any parent involved in help lines will tell you
But less so now
My perspective is different to yours on this but I sincerely believe this
Seen too much of it in various social work

christy c

While I think many will enjoy Sinn Fein making themselves look even more stupid than usual, personally I'd rather their representatives get hauled over the coals for the horse sh1t they call economic policy.

That said, he should have known better.

Nobotty

McMurphy wrote: »

You fully disagree?

So who made Leo make the speech against same sex marriage?

His chosen career in politics did
Before his coming out journey
I'd say it was quite the conflict ,him also being a narcissist centre of attention type
Luckily for him,the environment changed quickly
Thats one of 2 things I'd give Kenny credit for,it was extremely clever politics to create a constitutional committee to decide on referenda,knowing it would fill with sensible people and be hard for conservatives to oppose (2nd being his Dail Church and state abuse apology speech)
The rest of his policies were shoite:D

McMurphy

Nobotty wrote: »

His chosen career in politics did
Before his coming out journey
I'd say it was quite the conflict ,him also being a narcissist centre of attention type
Luckily for him,the environment changed quickly
Thats one of 2 things I'd give Kenny credit for,it was extremely clever politics to create a constitutional committee to decide on referenda,knowing it would fill with sensible people and be hard for conservatives to oppose (2nd being his Dail Church and state abuse apology speech)
The rest of his policies were shoite:D

Ok, so Leo was secretly gay, and rather publicly made a speech opposing gay marriage, when in fact the option to remain silent was also open to him, and then later, just before the gay marriage referendum, Leo came out - told the world he was gay, and now fully embraced the referendum.

That to me isn't Leo changing his mind, that is Leo Varadkar looking after Leo Varadkar, if he was dropped like a hot snot in a subsequent election and never heard of again pre SSM referendum, his speech opposing gay marriage would have been his lasting impression on the LBGT community, as already said, he wasn't there to support them throughout, only when it suited his career.

The flip side is obviously Leo Varadkar, as a secretly man actually did believe gay people shouldn't have the same rights as straight people, and be allowed to marry, but that's not very plausible tbh.

You can disagree if you like, you're fully entitled to do so by the way, but all evidence points to Leo being a political opportunist and little else.

blanch152

marieholmfan wrote: »

His socialist father and his liberal mother?
Yes very very Traditional.


You know what post reported Varadkar's family background isn't traditional. His father is a socialist , his parents are from different countries, cultures and religions. There is no evidence that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality -- in this context the post is clearly racist dogwhistling.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stereotyping race...pretty bolt on racism there alright.

Why did you do that blanch? What evidence have you that he comes from a 'traditional' background?

His father was a GP in Dublin 15, his mother worked in the GP surgery. Being from the area, I know an awful lot about his family background and have met both of them more than once. No stereotyping from me as a result.

I never said that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality, that is a misinterpretation of my post, deliberate or otherwise. As I said already, certain posters here seem to have no understanding or empathy with the coming-out process. There are many many gay people from conservative backgrounds who personally struggled with coming out because of that background, even though when they did, they were warmly welcomed by their families.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just relaying what other LGBT people are saying. When it was required by a politician to show empathy he failed them. Simple as.

No problem understanding he might have been afraid, no problem at all with that, everyone has had times in their life when it takes courage to stand up and be counted.

But 'silence' as I have said to you before, can be seen as supporting. And it is by many LGBT people. Which you would know if you listened to them and not the faux outrage woke element.

Yes, there are your posts telling us what people are saying, and there is the reality.


https://www.belongto.org/belong-to-welcomes-irelands-first-openly-gay-presumptive-taoiseach/

"As Ireland’s national LGBT+ youth service, we are delighted that the new leader of Fine Gael is a gay man, and now a role model for the youth who use our services across the country."

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

His father was a GP in Dublin 15, his mother worked in the GP surgery. Being from the area, I know an awful lot about his family background and have met both of them more than once. No stereotyping from me as a result.

I never said that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality, that is a misinterpretation of my post, deliberate or otherwise. As I said already, certain posters here seem to have no understanding or empathy with the coming-out process. There are many many gay people from conservative backgrounds who personally struggled with coming out because of that background, even though when they did, they were warmly welcomed by their families.

So why mention it at all?

A suggestion that takes no account of his traditional family background

What did you mean by it so.?

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

His chosen career in politics did
Before his coming out journey
I'd say it was quite the conflict ,him also being a narcissist centre of attention type
Luckily for him,the environment changed quickly
Thats one of 2 things I'd give Kenny credit for,it was extremely clever politics to create a constitutional committee to decide on referenda,knowing it would fill with sensible people and be hard for conservatives to oppose (2nd being his Dail Church and state abuse apology speech)
The rest of his policies were shoite:D

The thing about that is that those two decisions changed Ireland utterly. As a result, there are few politicians over the last 20 years who can claim to have had as big an effect on Irish society, certainly in a positive way.

Lenihan could claim to have as much influence in a negative way, with his disastorous decision to guarantee the banks.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

So why mention it at all?


What did you mean by it so.?

It was absolutely clear in the post you quoted.

blanch152 wrote: »

His father was a GP in Dublin 15, his mother worked in the GP surgery. Being from the area, I know an awful lot about his family background and have met both of them more than once. No stereotyping from me as a result.

I never said that his parents had any problem with his homosexuality, that is a misinterpretation of my post, deliberate or otherwise. As I said already, certain posters here seem to have no understanding or empathy with the coming-out process. There are many many gay people from conservative backgrounds who personally struggled with coming out because of that background, even though when they did, they were warmly welcomed by their families.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

It was absolutely clear in the post you quoted.

This bit?

There are many many gay people from conservative backgrounds who personally struggled with coming out because of that background, even though when they did, they were warmly welcomed by their families.

That applied to Leo?

His socialist father and his liberal mother?
Yes very very Traditional.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It was absolutely clear in the post you quoted.

You were indulging in racial stereotypng here, i.e. racism:

blanch152 wrote: »

Here we go again, someone posting that Leo comes out for political capital. Another snide attack.

A suggestion that takes no account of his traditional family background, of the difficulties in Ireland of being LGBTQ in public life. Over the years, there have been quite a number of gay politicians, some of whom have hidden it deeply, with sham marriages. A senior politician coming out is big news and another step forward for gay rights.

Get over it, and move on.

IAmTheReign

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Taoiseach Micheál Martin said he was “shocked and dismayed” by a controversial tweet sent by a Sinn Féin TD that referenced IRA attacks during the War of Independence and the Troubles.

On Saturday, the Laois-Offaly TD tweeted in reference to the Kilmichael Ambush in 1920 and the Narrow Water Massacre in Warrenpoint, Co Down in 1979, claiming they were “the 2 IRA operations that taught the elite of d British army and the establishment the cost of occupying Ireland. Pity for everyone they were such slow learners”.

Eighteen British soldiers were killed at Warrenpoint by the Provisional IRA on August 27th 1979 a deaf civilian was also killed after soldiers fired across the border into the Irish republic after the attack out of anger and rage.

In the 1920 incident at Kilmichael, a total of 17 British soldiers were killed, alongside three members of the War of Independence-era IRA.

Mr Martin said that the tweet by Laois-Offaly TD Brian Stanley was “appalling” and has done “huge damage”

Do you really think the tweet was all that bad or is Michael just point scoring?

How exactly has a thread about MMs comments about a tweet talking about IRA activities ended up on the topic of Leo being gay? From reading boards these days that seems to be the Godwins Law of Irish politics, talk about anything long enough and that's where it ends up.

For the record, personally I agree with MM (and I don't find myself saying that very often!). The attitude is hardly surprising form a senior SF man but it's completely tone deaf and a slap in the face to the whole concept of reconciliation. If SF really want to achieve their aims of a UI they need to be moving away from the past, not bringing it up every chance they get.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You were indulging in racial stereotypng here, i.e. racism:

Nonsense, on what planet does "traditional family background" equate to racism?

Edit: Ooops, I have probably broken some other "ism" of yours by mentioning a planet.

blanch152

IAmTheReign wrote: »

How exactly has a thread about MMs comments about a tweet talking about IRA activities ended up on the topic of Leo being gay? From reading boards these days that seems to be the Godwins Law of Irish politics, talk about anything long enough and that's where it ends up.

For the record, personally I agree with MM (and I don't find myself saying that very often!). The attitude is hardly surprising form a senior SF man but it's completely tone deaf and a slap in the face to the whole concept of reconciliation. If SF really want to achieve their aims of a UI they need to be moving away from the past, not bringing it up every chance they get.

Tone deaf is an understatement. It is more blatant than the lad with the Kingsmill Bread.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense, on what planet does "traditional family background" equate to racism?

Edit: Ooops, I have probably broken some other "ism" of yours by mentioning a planet.

There is nothing exceptional about having a 'traditional family background'. It is no excuse when many of those affected by a homophobic government also came from 'traditional family backgrounds'.

Many many many people were out and proud at the time Leo was making his speeches. He didn't have to come out to stand up and be counted on the issue.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is nothing exceptional about having a 'traditional family background'. It is no excuse when many of those affected by a homophobic government also came from 'traditional family backgrounds'.

Many many many people were out and proud at the time Leo was making his speeches. He didn't have to come out to stand up and be counted on the issue.

Wow, just wow.

When I said there was a lack of understanding of how difficult it still is in Ireland to come out, I was perhaps underestimating it. Anyone who works in the area would agree with me. There is still an awful lot of prejudice, and to say (in bold) that there is no excuse for him is unbelievable.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Wow, just wow.

When I said there was a lack of understanding of how difficult it still is in Ireland to come out, I was perhaps underestimating it. Anyone who works in the area would agree with me. There is still an awful lot of prejudice, and to say (in bold) that there is no excuse for him is unbelievable.

There is no excuse. Fears about coming out aside. He didn't have to 'come out' to stand up for LGBT rights.

Stop trying to twist.

marieholmfan

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense, on what planet does "traditional family background" equate to racism?

Edit: Ooops, I have probably broken some other "ism" of yours by mentioning a planet.

What is traditional about his family background other than suggestion that brown people are traditional or in other words backward?


Is the traditional element the fact that his parents are heterosexual? You can assert that but it is so normal as not to need to be stated ever anf therefore I don't have to believe you.

Floppybits

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no excuse. Fears about coming out aside. He didn't have to 'come out' to stand up for LGBT rights.

Stop trying to twist.

Well said Francie. Blanc as Francie says you don't need to be gay or have come out to have campaigned for LGBT rights in this country.

I do understand the reluctance of gay people to come out and say they were gay, my best mate was afraid to come out tell us he was gay for fear (in his own head he admitted) that we wouldn't want anything to do with him, when the opposite was true and when he did come we celebrated that and I think ordinary decent folk would do that. In fact we came more protective of him as there are people out there who can't accept this so we keep an eye out for him. So as far as I am concerned Varadkar never needed to hide that he was gay and I am sure most folks really don't care about his sexual orientation, what they are concerned about is the Varadkar only looks after those better off where as I would say most folks in this country want a fairer country and not the cronyism we have seem from Varadkar and co.