Role of Guidance Counsellor

Hopontop

What role does the guidance counsellor play in your school? In the school I’m currently in they seem to be the principal’s righthand person and seem to have more “sway” or “power” in the school than even the DPs. All of this wouldn’t be such a problem only they are very much on the students side and discipline in the school is shocking. They also seem to go through fads without actually sticking with anything, for example we apparently introduced Restorative Practice but they don’t seem to actually know what it is. Wondering if this is the norm as I hadn’t come across it in the other schools I worked in.

Smacruairi

Jesus I could have written the same post. Ours function in the ladder of refferal... But also seem to have their own ladder. Push for every initiative under the sun without really having a full experience of what teaching looks like. See themselves as a bit of an advocate for students, which is understandable, but don't seem to realise this often lowers the standards for other kids and its very hard to maintain justice and consistency then, especially with lads. I'll be following this one.

Random sample

Gosh, our guidance counsellor teaches a TY module, meets classgroups in 5th and 6th year to talk about CAO, meets individual students who are struggling and sits on the care support team.

I don't know where she'd get the time for the above!

r93kaey5p2izun

Overall, no, my experience of our guidance counsellors was not like this. I think they had a bit more influence on the discipline policy than other teachers because they were part of student care teams alongside Year Heads, but not too much. They would advocate for students, but that included advocating for the rights of everyone to learn, which ignoring serious behaviour issues does not allow.

However, my former school also employs psychotherapists who are not teachers. They did great work with students, which I feel was incredibly beneficial. But, I did think they way overstepped the mark in terms of influencing school management and school policy and undermining teachers, and interfering with school policy to the detriment of everyone.

In terms of fads that are never seen through to completion, this was a major major issue in the school, and entirely down to ruthless ambitious staff looking for promotion, but not actually interested in the students. So many gimmicks, so many pointless initiatives, so much time wasted. Then they flit off to DP somewhere else and leave the mess behind.

Smacruairi

Random sample wrote: »

Gosh, our guidance counsellor teaches a TY module, meets classgroups in 5th and 6th year to talk about CAO, meets individual students who are struggling and sits on the care support team.

I don't know where she'd get the time for the above!

As a year head you meet class groups regularly, meet individual students, go to middle management meetings, and then deal with colleagues, give assemblies, manage parents etc, all while doing a full timetable minus the few hours offered.

There are good and bad year heads and counsellors granted, but I think I agree with the sentiment of the OP more.

Hopontop

Marissa Teeny Archery wrote: »

Overall, no, my experience of our guidance counsellors was not like this. I think they had a bit more influence on the discipline policy than other teachers because they were part of student care teams alongside Year Heads, but not too much. They would advocate for students, but that included advocating for the rights of everyone to learn, which ignoring serious behaviour issues does not allow.

This would have been the norm in all the other schools I would have been in/have heard about from friends. However this school has almost the opposite approach, the most disruptive and difficult kids are made the priority to the detriment of the others, with every made to overlook their behaviour.

Marissa Teeny Archery wrote: »

In terms of fads that are never seen through to completion, this was a major major issue in the school, and entirely down to ruthless ambitious staff looking for promotion, but not actually interested in the students. So many gimmicks, so many pointless initiatives, so much time wasted. Then they flit off to DP somewhere else and leave the mess behind.

This is it exactly, fads just to pad a CV, the idea that they could actually benefit students and staff is of the least concern!

r93kaey5p2izun

I will also add that a major driver of useless fads was actually the Leadership and Management post grad courses. Every candidate had to implement some initiative as part of the course, and since 90% of the teachers under 50 completed one, there was no respite from new initiatives!

Smacruairi

Marissa Teeny Archery wrote: »

I will also add that a major driver of useless fads was actually the Leadership and Management post grad courses. Every candidate had to implement some initiative as part of the course, and since 90% of the teachers under 50 completed one, there was no respite from new initiatives!

Which one? I did the ucd one and there was nothing of the sort? It'd be very poor form if a college expected you to interfere with the running of a school for the completion of an assignment.

I put a lot of the blame on the inverview system. As you have to ask the same questions of all, it's very hard to call out someone's BS when they spout it in an interview setting. The amount of people I've heard talk about implementing this initiative and that, with absolutely no data or evidence to show whether it was effective or not. That's a real issue imo.

doc_17

Their role is also to take a half day on Thursday to “protect their mental health”. They also pretend to do inservice on this day as well.

snor

doc_17 wrote: »

Their role is also to take a half day on Thursday to “protect their mental health”. They also pretend to do inservice on this day as well.

They actually are required by the Dept to attend supervision on a Thursday afternoon. Supervision is a requirement for all Professionals involved in counseling.

The GCs in our school are flat out every other hour of the week, often staying late in the evenings to catch up On paperwork.

Our GCs provide invaluable support for students in the form of personal and career counselling. This year in particular, they are dealing with a large number of students with complex issues. External services are unable to take them on due to the demand so it’s left to the GC to manage some very complex case, which in other years could be referred in to specialized services.

I’m sure like any profession, there are good and bad but a good guidance Counsellor is a Massive asset to a school Community and takes certain pressures off management.

r93kaey5p2izun

Smacruairi wrote: »

Which one? I did the ucd one and there was nothing of the sort? It'd be very poor form if a college expected you to interfere with the running of a school for the completion of an assignment.

I put a lot of the blame on the inverview system. As you have to ask the same questions of all, it's very hard to call out someone's BS when they spout it in an interview setting. The amount of people I've heard talk about implementing this initiative and that, with absolutely no data or evidence to show whether it was effective or not. That's a real issue imo.

It would have been a mixture of mostly Maynooth and Trinity Diplomas and Masters, and also internal ETB leadership programmes. I did one in Maynooth and it's the only course I regret doing in either of careers! But you're right about the interview system, even if it is a known fact the candidate is all talk and it's complete crap, if it demonstrates the competency in the interview, then it gets points. Especially with ETBs choosing to not have the principal on the interview panel - I can see the merits of that, but it means "competencies" can be complete fabrications.

scrubs33

Slightly off topic here but continuing the theme of interviews will the type of questions asked at interviews change in light of what has gone on over the past 9 months? Should we expect to see a focus on digital learning plans etc or will panels just revert to the default questions around managing a faith based organization? There’s a big chance to review things but is the appetite there i wonder.

Smacruairi

scrubs33 wrote: »

Slightly off topic here but continuing the theme of interviews will the type of questions asked at interviews change in light of what has gone on over the past 9 months? Should we expect to see a focus on digital learning plans etc or will panels just revert to the default questions around managing a faith based organization? There’s a big chance to review things but is the appetite there i wonder.

Don't expect a change anytime soon. Need to consult and agree before changing the criteria. But your managing the organisation question covers digital plans

Chilli Con Kearney

Hopontop wrote: »

What role does the guidance counsellor play in your school? In the school I’m currently in they seem to be the principal’s righthand person and seem to have more “sway” or “power” in the school than even the DPs. All of this wouldn’t be such a problem only they are very much on the students side and discipline in the school is shocking. They also seem to go through fads without actually sticking with anything, for example we apparently introduced Restorative Practice but they don’t seem to actually know what it is. Wondering if this is the norm as I hadn’t come across it in the other schools I worked in.

Individual meetings with 5th and 6th year students about options after school
Meetings, emails and calls with parents about options after school
CAO and parents evenings
Linking students seeking apprenticeships with local employers
Helping students with CVs and cover letters
Writing references for students applying for apprenticeships, as well as past pupils who come back to you (sometimes several years later)
Meetings with students who have mental health issues
Meetings with students who have issues around sexuality/gender.
Meetings with agencies and professionals, e.g. psychologists, CAMHS, etc.
Referrals to outside agencies (these can be very time consuming)
Meetings, calls, emails, etc with parents, year heads and management before these meetings
Meetings with students who have things going on at home, e.g. alcoholism, separation/.divorce, etc.
Meetings with bereaved students (as well as meetings with the parent who is still around)
Scholarship applications (Ireland and abroad, e.g. US sports)
Assistance with UCAS applications and personal statements
References for PLC courses and interview preparation
References for students who get part-time jobs
Predicted grades and reports for students seeking to study abroad (e.g. Europe and US)
TY careers classes
TY university open days – organising and bringing students
Work and college placements (e.g. with local companies / trades people, RCSI minimed, TCD science, etc, etc)
6th year careers classes
Higher options – organising and bringing students
Stand up LGBT awareness week initiatives
Careers evenings for senior cycle students (30 professions in school hall where students can sit and talk to them about college, careers, etc)
Incoming parents evenings
Ability testing for incoming first years (Saturdays)
Ability testing for TYs
Subject choice for TYs and third years skipping on
Meetings with students, parents and management about students who want to leave, research and communication for these, e.g. with training centres, apprenticeship providers, Youthreach, etc
DARE applications for CAO, including communication with relevant colleges, professionals in hospitals, etc
Sourcing funding for parents who have lost jobs and need help with money for books, uniform, etc
Everyday conversations with teachers, year heads and management about students they would like you to meet
Care team meetings with year heads and management

That’s a start.