I see the Christmas street traders are allowed now

Rrrrrr2

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

Rrrrrr2

I’ll hopefully be up in Dublin pre Xmas for some shopping, must make a point of buying a few bits off them. Trade must be way down due them. It’s not like they can go online or click/collect

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

This is done.

Prosecuting counterfeit in court is however highly unlikely as the companies will rarely send an expert witness for the sake of a small street seller.

Besides, if you locked up all the Irish women who had knock off bags and wallets, there wouldnt be any left! :P

True, to a point, but if you turn a blind eye to certain levels of criminality it will spiral out of control.

Gardai decide not to bother with people going through red lights by a fraction, speeding... after a while society gets more complacent with grave consequences...

If laws are broken, no matter what, arrest and prosecute.

mad m

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

Yes, generations ago ,when decent folk sold sound stuff. It’s changed a lot since then. I do agree with you though as there is some sellers who are out in all weathers at top of Meath st/Thomas st. I’ve walked through Greek street flats on numerous occasions near fruit market. Girl at end of steps in husky voice “ smokes love” runs up to 2nd floor gets the fags and money changes hand...

Atlantic Dawn

I really feel sorry for Arnotts, the effort they make on their front window display to be then hidden by what resembles a disorganised car boot sale selling utter sheite that makes Dealz look like Harrods.

Pkiernan

But their charming inner city accents are a delight on the ears.

IngazZagni

I've been accused of being a guard on more than one occasion in that area.
Whatever about the counterfeit goods they sell. I have genuine concerns about some of the children's toys they sell. Are they really safe? We hear often about fake toys being dangerous to children due to shoddy workmanship and the presence of lead etc.
I'm not a smoker but I've heard some of the cigarettes they sell are cheap knockoffs. These could have dangerous chemicals (yes more than the real ones) in them.

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

Niallof9

its clearly a soft policy of acceptance/regulation, to encourage some economic activity in these communities and if they were banned there would be war. I don't like them but i can see their need. Same up on Meath Street. At least its mostly tat, go down to the Milk Market (one of the best in Ireland) and outside people sell machinery, which you have to ask is coming from where...i mean if some of the stuff is coming from the back of a truck, yeah its a disgrace.

But shutting them down would create a huge problem. Its like the horse lads on Grafton st, alot of 15 year olds. They are earning money here, in as about as honest a way as they can, so its mainly a positive.

Niallof9

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Generations of working class Dublin women have been doing this for hundreds of years - sure you don’t like the “tat” they sell but they’re out in all weathers, working hard and mainly just trying to make a few Bob.
I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!
Let them have their few weeks of selling- you don’t have to buy it. And it’s no worse or different than what you get in Penney’s or Dealz tbh- part of the fabric of Dublin and I’d defend their right to trade as they’ve always done. The money they make goes straight into their pockets and communities rather than some massively wealthy multinational

I agree with what you say, but the last bit is what pisses people off. How much is paid in tax etc?

But yeah if you shut these stalls down you have damaged a whole community and undone 100 years of history. SO i agree with your sentiment. Now if you reopened the Iveagh markets i would argue against putting them back.

El Tarangu

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I’m from a farm in Leinster so going to dublin these women and their families fascinated me - salt of the earth characters - da used buy fireworks at Halloween from them!!

The fact that they sell illegal things like fireworks and untaxed cigarettes is why people want them closed down.

Rrrrrr2

El Tarangu wrote: »

The fact that they sell illegal things like fireworks and untaxed cigarettes is why people want them closed down.

Ah it’s over 20 years ago now! Was very blatant back then. Think it’s more discrete now

Black cats and Roman candles!!!

strandroad

IngazZagni wrote: »

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

Last year's Dublin Castle market was actually really nice, it's the right location for it, it just needs to be expanded to the castle grounds beyond the courtyard which is too small to hold it all. I hope that it will be back in 2021.

This way the Southside can have artisan bakes and ornaments, and the Northside can have tat prams with dodgy smokes, choose the right one for ye!

Chiorino

Regardless of what you think of the traders, they do need insurance and tax clearance before the council will issue them a licence for the month (which costs around €500 incidentally) and if they have any convictions for selling anything illegal, they wont get it. Most of them have been there for decades and in all likelyhood, once they retire, they won't be replaced. Numbers trading have been in steady decline for a while now so leave them at it and eventually it will fade away naturally. Lots of people enjoy having them on Henry Street at Christmas and if you don't, just avoid them.

Thelonious Monk

Can't stand these stalls and I avoid Henry St at this time of year because of them. At least it gets them off the dole for a few weeks!

fleet_admiral

IngazZagni wrote: »

I've been accused of being a guard on more than one occasion in that area.
Whatever about the counterfeit goods they sell. I have genuine concerns about some of the children's toys they sell. Are they really safe? We hear often about fake toys being dangerous to children due to shoddy workmanship and the presence of lead etc.
I'm not a smoker but I've heard some of the cigarettes they sell are cheap knockoffs. These could have dangerous chemicals (yes more than the real ones) in them.

I'm just generally amazed how open this is. It looks terrible but we have people defending it to no end. "It's a tradition", "they're decent genuine working class folks", "Id prefer to give my money to them than big business" etc etc. I dont believe those excuses makes it right.

A genuine Christmas Market is what we need that mimics the success seen in various European cities.

The fact that they are accusing you of bring a garda says something. Why would they do that if they are only selling tinsel and Toblerones

ixoy

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can't stand these stalls and I avoid Henry St at this time of year because of them. At least it gets them off the dole for a few weeks!

Same for myself and my husband and I imagine there's more people put off visiting the street than heading in just to see the stalls.

Spanish Eyes

Hope they scrap them next year. They add nothing. Tacky and all that, Dealz is far better.

I agree with a pp, the shops like Arnotts put a lot of work into dressing their windows, only for them to be invisible because of the stalls.

You’d never see them outside BT or on Grafton Street now would you.

thenightman

Hope they stay and would sooner have them in the area than the sort of 'respectable retailers' like Debenhams who fecked over their staff without a second thought. Some sour auld folk in here. What harm are they doing?

On a note with nothing to do with the Christmas traders; Customs are always active enough either covertly or in uniform on Moore Street on the hunt for the cigs, great craic watching the auld wans trying to suss them out!

Spanish Eyes

thenightman wrote: »

Hope they stay and would sooner have them in the area than the sort of 'respectable retailers' like Debenhams who fecked over their staff without a second thought. Some sour auld folk in here. What harm are they doing?

On a note with nothing to do with the Christmas traders; Customs are always active enough either covertly or in uniform on Moore Street on the hunt for the cigs, great craic watching the auld wans trying to suss them out!

The street traders are an anachronism these days. Their days are numbered. Tacky and cheap and clogging up the streets.

Wolfe Tone park around the corner is DCC owned, let them off there to sell their crap.

Not one stall to be found on Grafton Street or surrounds. Hmm. wonder why.

Rrrrrr2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The street traders are an anachronism these days. Their days are numbered. Tacky and cheap and clogging up the streets.

Wolfe Tone park around the corner is DCC owned, let them off there to sell their crap.

Not one stall to be found on Grafton Street or surrounds. Hmm. wonder why.

Aren’t there still those flower stalls in the middle of Grafton St?

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

True, to a point, but if you turn a blind eye to certain levels of criminality it will spiral out of control.

Gardai decide not to bother with people going through red lights by a fraction, speeding... after a while society gets more complacent with grave consequences...

If laws are broken, no matter what, arrest and prosecute.

Gardai have discretion for a reason though. I don't think we need to copy the us style do we? Sometimes people are just going through a bad spell and made a mistake. A bit of a break to get back up and running again is better than just lashing everyone with tickets and court dates.

But I take your point. Broken glass theory and all that.

elperello

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The street traders are an anachronism these days. Their days are numbered. Tacky and cheap and clogging up the streets.

Wolfe Tone park around the corner is DCC owned, let them off there to sell their crap.

Not one stall to be found on Grafton Street or surrounds. Hmm. wonder why.

You may well be right that change is coming for the traders.

From their point of view they are probably better off standing their ground until some new arrangement is made.

There are flower stalls on Grafton Street.

Spanish Eyes

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Aren’t there still those flower stalls in the middle of Grafton St?

They are are not in the middle of Grafton Street at all. Just on the side streets, and they don't impede pedestrian traffic up and down at all.

They sell lovely flowers too, not Chinese tat and weed and cigarettes under their prams. lol.

Rrrrrr2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

They are are not in the middle of Grafton Street at all. Just on the side streets, and they don't impede pedestrian traffic up and down at all.

They sell lovely flowers too, not Chinese tat and weed and cigarettes under their prams. lol.

I think you’d secretly miss the Chinese tat like jumping battery powered dogs and fake Ghucci bags up on Henry st

Spanish Eyes

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Gardai have discretion for a reason though. I don't think we need to copy the us style do we? Sometimes people are just going through a bad spell and made a mistake. A bit of a break to get back up and running again is better than just lashing everyone with tickets and court dates.

But I take your point. Broken glass theory and all that.

Absolutely agree. Tackle the so called bits and pieces of criminality/lack of respect etc. and everything else will follow.

Who was it who did this in NY? Could google but I am sure someone will help me out.

Spanish Eyes

elperello wrote: »

You may well be right that change is coming for the traders.

From their point of view they are probably better off standing their ground until some new arrangement is made.

There are flower stalls on Grafton Street.

The flower sellers are on the side streets, not on Grafton Street itself.

ThewhiteJesus

I was on Moore street at lunch today and there was only one stall with dodgy handbags, they don’t bother me tbh it’s the junkies I hate

elperello

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The flower sellers are on the side streets, not on Grafton Street itself.

Let's not split hairs.

They are on the corner of Harry Street and do encroach onto Grafton Street.

They are known far and wide as the Flower Sellers of Grafton Street.

I take your point that the flowers are in a different category to the goods sold on Henry Street.

elperello

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Absolutely agree. Tackle the so called bits and pieces of criminality/lack of respect etc. and everything else will follow.

Who was it who did this in NY? Could google but I am sure someone will help me out.

You are probably thinking of Rudy Giuliani.

Cleaning up NYC was child's play compared to his current gig

Spanish Eyes

elperello wrote: »

Let's not split hairs.

They are on the corner of Harry Street and do encroach onto Grafton Street.

They are known far and wide as the Flower Sellers of Grafton Street.

I take your point that the flowers are in a different category to the goods sold on Henry Street.

A few criminal's molls involved in the flower selling if you read about it, but hey, flowers are so much nicer than tat as you say.

Doubt any of them are angels. Sorry Angles.