10 VW Polo - timing chain stretched

Timing belt

Timing belt wrote: »

It’s a known issue and 5 years ago VW did subsidise part of the cost. But on a ten year old car there is no hope....if the car has been serviced by vw all its life then the timing chain should have been replaced at some stage...........

This is the OPs point ........... 10-year-old VW polo (107 thousand km).............bought it from VW approved garage, and serviced it all the way through with VW approved dealer. .................

It sounds like they were never advised to replace the chain and first they hear of an issue is catastrophic failure.

It's unfortunately a case of tough sh1t really.

lawred2

wholesome19 wrote: »

Thanks for coming back to me, so even though I have been with them from the start - they still aren't obliged to the car.

Do you think it would be worth asking them to match a quote from an independent mechanic? I would like to keep it with VW if possible.

Also definitely not doing trade in...do you know if car still valuable if independent mechanic was to fix it (apologies for the millions of Qs)

It's nearly eleven years old.

Timing belt

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/11/engine-failure-left-vw-owners-picking-up-a-surprise-6700-bill

colm_mcm

Timing belt wrote: »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/11/engine-failure-left-vw-owners-picking-up-a-surprise-6700-bill

Username is spot on!




(OPs car has a chain though!)

Timing belt

colm_mcm wrote: »

Username is spot on!

I had a similar issue with my 08 Golf but luckily no damage done as I caught it early due to car giving out a error code so it was just a case of a new chain etc...

I came on here at the time looking for advice hence the user name :-)

wholesome19

Augeo wrote: »

This is the OPs point ........... 10-year-old VW polo (107 thousand km).............bought it from VW approved garage, and serviced it all the way through with VW approved dealer. .................

It sounds like they were never advised to replace the chain and first they hear of an issue is catastrophic failure.

It's unfortunately a case of tough sh1t really.

Thats my point exactly - I was never advised to change it, didnt even know it existed and then I get left to deal with the mess.

If I had of known I would of been watching out for it and would have got it replaced

lawred2

wholesome19 wrote: »

Thats my point exactly - I was never advised to change it, didnt even know it existed and then I get left to deal with the mess.

If I had of known I would of been watching out for it and would have got it replaced

What would you have been watching out for?

Timing belt

lawred2 wrote: »

What would you have been watching out for?

The first sign of it giving is the engine getting out of tune rough sounding engine or a increase in fuel consumption.

As the chain can jump a sprocket when started cold due to the chain loosening and the low oil pressure on the tensioner at start up.

colm_mcm

The big problem is that that 1.2 engine sounds like a bag of spanners at the best of times.

Timing belt

colm_mcm wrote: »

The big problem is that that 1.2 engine sounds like a bag of spanners at the best of times.

lol very true

User1998

colm_mcm wrote: »

The big problem is that that 1.2 engine sounds like a bag of spanners at the best of times.

Yep. Every Polo I buy I’m convinced the chain is on its way out because of how bad it sounds on start up

Oops!

colm_mcm wrote: »

The big problem is that that 1.2 engine sounds like a bag of spanners at the best of times.

I hate chain driven 3 cylinders...

colm_mcm

Oops! wrote: »

I hate chain driven 3 cylinders...

You should hear the 1.2 TDI

:eek:

Oops!

colm_mcm wrote: »

You should hear the 1.2 TDI

:eek:

I have, and been up to my elbows in a few of them... Dirt.

CoBo55

Oops! wrote: »

I have, and been up to my elbows in a few of them... Dirt.

Definitely, same for the petrols.

colm_mcm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Definitely, same for the petrols.

The diesel sounds like it’s thrown a rod. From factory.

route66

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Unfortunately, that is a popular issue with those Polos, which makes finding a second hand engine very hard, I think your best option is to get the current engine refurbished, whether that by with VW or another provider.

It's disappointing to see this with people who have stayed the course, bought from a dealer and serviced with a dealer right through. If you've been working with the same dealer all along i'd try and put that case to them locally and see they offer the repair for a more competitive price. Dealers can authorise goodwill themselves up to cars 7 years of age but after that point all goodwill is cut off, bar local discount.

Responsibility landing with the dealer is untrue and going legal is an utter waste of time, it's 10 years old, it's your baby. It doesn't take away from the unfortunate nature of things, you done things right in the hope of reliability and it's let you down, that and you'd like to think a chain would last more than 10 years/100k kms. That being said, it is what it is now.

Agree with Colm, trading in wouldn't be the best move here financially.

I would push the dealer for a better price.

I've seen the timing chain in this engine (albeit as fitted to a Seat Ibiza) and without exaggerating, I think it 's fair to say it's about the size and strength of something I have on my push bike.



It is no surprise that these fail - they were simply not designed to have a service life to match the car. At least VW / Seat / Skoda installed the engine so that access to the chain is not in the BMW N47/520d league ...


VW should have either used a belt that is easily replaceable or they should have designed a chain that will last the natural life of the car.



But then, this is VW we are talking about

CoBo55

route66 wrote: »

I've seen the timing chain in this engine (albeit as fitted to a Seat Ibiza) and without exaggerating, I think it 's fair to say it's about the size and strength of something I have on my push bike.



It is no surprise that these fail - they were simply not designed to have a service life to match the car. At least VW / Seat / Skoda installed the engine so that access to the chain is not in the BMW N47/520d league ...


VW should have either used a belt that is easily replaceable or they should have designed a chain that will last the natural life of the car.



But then, this is VW we are talking about

Not as puny as the BMW chain...

whippet

I had an Ibiza with this engine and the chain slipped on a cold morning when I only had about 50k miles on the clock .. luckily it didn’t do any damage and a new tensioner sorted it. The mechanic at the time told me the tensioner was as fragile as anything he’d seen.

Absolute pig of an engine and a few years later it dies a death all on its own ... scrapped with 75k miles on the clock ... full service history to go with it too

greasepalm

Turn off the radio to hear more,hehe

colm_mcm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The 3 cylinder in my VW Up! sounds better than my last few 4 pots. In fact I go as far as saying it sounds rather nice

I love a 3 pot.

The 1.2 TDI is shocking though.

https://youtu.be/4N-qXEzSNgQ

wholesome19

Hi, for anyone interested this is the latest update. Essentially loads of back and forth...VW stood up to the plate and gave goodwill of €1250 - which is really good of them! So fair play VW!

Anyway, went back to the dealer, and the final quote €3600. I was weighing up my options and showed the quote to an independent mechanic. He said that the dealership weren't completing the full job, only replacing the cylinder head and the chain. Not fixing the big end bearing. So I went back to query both the labour costs and the extent of the repair and they said:

The labour costs would be split as the below, due to the substantial work involved and the numerous parts that need to be removed and refitted, so couldn't individually break down the hours

Labour costs:
Timing Chain Replacement – 8 hour
Cylinder Head – 4 hours

In regards to the big end bearing, that is located at the bottom of the engine and the repair of my vehicle is related to the top of the engine. Obviously, the repair had been noted by the qualified VW technicians, and although ' they don't have a crystal ball' that this is the solution they have advised is required to repair the vehicle.

Like what do you think, does that sound right about the repair, or is the independent mechanic right. Am I wrong in thinking that they should be able to provide the full extent of what needs to be done? The crystal ball comment seems a bit wishy-washy considering the cost of €3600. The independent mechanic has advised me that all they will do is pressurise the engine to get the car working but it won't be a long-term fix.

So I think im going to get it out of there, but want to make sure I'm not over-reacting.

So any advice welcome.

colm_mcm

How much do you have to pony up?

wholesome19

colm_mcm wrote: »

How much do you have to pony up?

2400 due to the goodwill - at this stage I don't mind doing that. Even tho its a lot...its more I just want the job done right, what do you think?

Oops!

I think your blinded by their bull****e and are still paying through the nose for the job.... But sure whatever your happy with.

wholesome19

Oops! wrote: »

I think your blinded by their bull****e and are still paying through the nose for the job.... But sure whatever your happy with.

Blinded is an understatement! I'm well over their bull**** at this stage - I'm just trying to get a gauge of how much BS and what I really want to know is, if they are actually doing the job at all?

Or is it a patch job like the other guy said?

lawred2

2400 not buy a working engine?

mickdw

Sounds like madness to me.
Id look for an engine, fit new chain then install.

TheW1zard

New engine surely

wholesome19

mickdw wrote: »

Sounds like madness to me.
Id look for an engine, fit new chain then install.

That's what the independent mechanic has suggested - so going with him. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting to what the dealers were saying, as my gut was like this isn't right...but I only have limited knowledge of cars.

Thanks, everyone for your help - really genuinely appreciate it.

bazz26

The dealer is doing well out of that "goodwill" imo, it's probably the only reason they and VW are entertaining that work on a 10 year old car in my view.

TheBoyConor

10 year old Polo with a bad engine. I wouldn't even bother fixing that car tbh. Not worth it. You'd have a better car bought for the cost of the repair. Scrap it.

I would never trust an engine that had someone fiddling around replacing the big end bearings. They way I'd see it is that it would be an engine that has been interfered with. I know now someone will say "oh but it's a main dealer with highly trained technicians" and so on, but at the end of the day that is only all plumás and spoofery - a lot of the time they haven't a notion and are only chancing this and that, or let some dimwitted apprentice work on it.

They are quoting you 2400 because they don't want to do it and want you to either buy a new car off them, or go away and get it fixed elsewhere.

wholesome19

TheBoyConor wrote: »

10 year old Polo with a bad engine. I wouldn't even bother fixing that car tbh. Not worth it. You'd have a better car bought for the cost of the repair. Scrap it.

How much does it cost to scrap it? I think il try the new engine, as I need a car at the moment & can't afford a new one right now.

TheBoyConor

wholesome19 wrote: »

How much does it cost to scrap it? I think il try the new engine, as I need a car at the moment & can't afford a new one right now.

It doesn't cost anything to scrap it. Just bring it to a licenced dismantlers and get a certificate of destruction. You might even get paid some small amount for it, but for a 10 year old Polo, it would not be much. Maybe €50.

If it were me I'd probably dump it in the dealer's yard with a boot full of rubbish after I'd put every potentially useful part of it beyond re-use, and cut up the wiring harness.

wholesome19

TheBoyConor wrote: »

10 year old Polo with a bad engine. I wouldn't even bother fixing that car tbh. Not worth it. You'd have a better car bought for the cost of the repair. Scrap it.

I would never trust an engine that had someone fiddling around replacing the big end bearings. They way I'd see it is that it would be an engine that has been interfered with. I know now someone will say "oh but it's a main dealer with highly trained technicians" and so on, but at the end of the day that is only all plumás and spoofery - a lot of the time they haven't a notion and are only chancing this and that, or let some dimwitted apprentice work on it.

They are quoting you 2400 because they don't want to do it and want you to either buy a new car off them, or go away and get it fixed elsewhere.

Yeah I think your right on the cost - that they dont want to do the job, as they have made it that hard for us.

The mechanic fitting the engine is a family friend, so while it might be frankensteins monster - if it can last me a little while Id be happy. Or do you think it could be potentially dangerous?

colm_mcm

Even a 10 Polo is still worth fixing scrapping wouldn’t make financial sense given what the car is worth fixed.

If you can get a known working engine and get a timing chain fitted to it as a preventative measure - that would be the best solution in my mind.

TheW1zard

My car is 10 years old, worth 3k. has 50k on the clock, and is in great nick. Suzuki Swift.
So you can afford a good car, just not a new one off a dealer.

TheW1zard

Something like this
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/suzuki-swift-1-3-petrol/26599467

Edit: 7 previous owners! Anyway point is you have options

Toyotafanboi

wholesome19 wrote: »

Blinded is an understatement! I'm well over their bull**** at this stage - I'm just trying to get a gauge of how much BS and what I really want to know is, if they are actually doing the job at all?

Or is it a patch job like the other guy said?

IMO the independent mechanic is talking through his rear end.

WTF is he on about bottom end bearings? "Pressurizing the engine", what even is that?

For one, he hasn't seen the car, for two how could a timing chain breaking damage the bottom end bearings and for three what the hell is pressurizing?

Lads are great at chipping in shoddy, shoddy work Ted opinions when the job has nothing got to do with their workshop. It's very easy to put another workshop down when they aren't their to say their piece.

For what it's worth, VW's goodwill is usually distributed in 70/30 portions between parties so while the job is expensive-ish it does sound like someone somewhere is actually coming to the table.

€2400 for a reputable outfit to fix the engine and put two years warranty on the work is a good option. You're getting back a car you know to be good. Anything you buy for a couple of grand could be just another ****heap down the line. Your Polo will give years of good service again after the repair.

wholesome19

TheW1zard wrote: »

Something like this
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/suzuki-swift-1-3-petrol/26599467

Edit: 7 previous owners! Anyway point is you have options

Yes 100% have options, more what I mean - is right now I don't have the luxury to take a chance. So your car is perfect as you know its been with a good user, low milege - but going to buy one on the open market. I will be taking a chance that the are offering a similar decent style car.

User1998

User1998 wrote: »

OP I bought a 2010 Polo with 110k miles for €1,300 with the same issue as yours. I bought a replacement 2012 engine with 50k miles for €900 and had it fitted for €300. I also put a new timing chain on the replacement engine and changed the oil, the mechanic didn’t charge me for labour for that because the engine was already out of the car, so that was another €250 for parts I think. So about €1,500 or so all in.

OP this is still your best option

wholesome19

User1998 wrote: »

OP this is still your best option

The independent mechanic has quoted me something similar - but a 10 engine, so think your right - thinks it's the best option & new timing chain on it.

Thanks so much!