US billionaire calls out Ireland as "no one wants to live here"

cgcsb

SmokyMo wrote: »

Nobody would want to move to Ireland unless they coming from less well off countries.

Most migrants in Ireland are from the UK, which has a similar level of wealth. Most of the rest are from mainland Europe, same or similar level of wealth.

I hate the damp weather here too. Rains so much in the West
I can understand others not liking it, it gets in your bones.
Give me hotter in summer & colder in winter, lovely.

IAMAMORON

If we could just get rid of all the soccer fans we would be laughing.

Been saying it for years in fairness, it's such a shight sport, cricket is better .. or darts.

SmokyMo

cgcsb wrote: »

Most migrants in Ireland are from the UK, which has a similar level of wealth. Most of the rest are from mainland Europe, same or similar level of wealth.

I am talking purely from perspective of Tech industry and Tech opportunities in their home country.

Not general Irish migrant population.

Your Face

He is talking like a fella that walked into a local pub acting flash and got put back in his box.

jackboy

L1011 wrote: »

Paddy Cosgrave expected the Taoiseach to help him getting better wifi. That's not having a go at corrupt politicians, that's demanding they be your PA

The wifi is just as problematic as his Portuguese conference centre, but they give him much better kickbacks "support" to have the conference there.

That’s a very poor reason for the level of hate he gets online in Ireland, including on boards. I must be missing something.

Thelonious Monk

There is great food here, but when you hear how people on boards and reddit glorify tayto crisps and chicken fillet rolls and carvery and these kinds of things it doesn't say a lot for our tastes. Jambons ffs.
The weather is crap and I've heard from non Irish people that it's almost impossible to make Irish friends. Neither myself nor anyone I know have any non Irish friends that live here that I can think of.
On the other hand we must be doing something right if so many companies invest here, but it could be purely a tax thing and the fact that we speak English.

KaneToad

cgcsb wrote: »

Typical Irish chippers are vastly superior to the fast food offering in the USA which is 99% dominated by chains.

Touché

Randy Archer

TomTomTim wrote: »

This is why the Irish will never be independent in a pure sense. When you shape your values based on validation, you have no true values, you become whatever you need to become to get validation. It's a big part of the reason the Irish are so proud of how "progressive" we are.

Say what you like but De Valera wasn’t too worried about outside opinion and being bullied and threatened by invasion by supposed friends (Britain and USA) when he insisted on “Neutrality” during WW2 . He was so anal about it he even publicly expressed condolence to his friend at the German Embassy over Hitlers death (people ignore that he did the same and more when the US President died weeks earlier )

No true values ? What ? The boasts (cringe , yes) about progressive this that and the other is often in response to old and current claims from morons who know nothing about the nation about being backwards etc ....

Every now and then , we have to put those clowns back into their box

KaneToad

bubblypop wrote: »

I hate the damp weather here too. Rains so much in the West
I can understand others not liking it, it gets in your bones.
Give me hotter in summer & colder in winter, lovely.

Weather is a preference. I hate hot summers and cold winters. I like Ireland's weather.

Thelonious Monk

He's coming from California where the food and weather is really good too

Church on Tuesday

Ireland is...

L1011

jackboy wrote: »

That’s a very poor reason for the level of hate he gets online in Ireland, including on boards. I must be missing something.

That's just two elements of the overall picture. There's lots more. The ego, the jumpers and so on.

irishguitarlad

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Ireland is...

This full press conference is hilarious, Gattuso is a legend.

Mimon

jackboy wrote: »

That’s a very poor reason for the level of hate he gets online in Ireland, including on boards. I must be missing something.

He is a vengeful little bollix who has a gripe about the Irish government not bending over and throwing millions at his little tech meet up.

Wasn't he hacking somewhere to get data to have a go at Ireland's Covid response.

Gregor Samsa

An old CEO of my company once told us all that they weren't investing in any more expansion in Europe because the EU had banned employees from checking their emails after 6pm. He had read some random article on something Volkswagen were trying in Germany regarding work/life balance, and totally misinterpreted it. He had to issue an apology the next month, because everyone in 5 offices over here (Ireland, UK, Luxembourg, Germany and Austria) were freaking out that he was going to shut them down over something that just wasn't true.

Fortunately, powerful, opinionated, misinformed and all as tech CEOs often are, the decisions these companies make are actually based mainly on financial grounds, and not on factors such as available cuisine and rainfall.

ElJeffe

ElJeffe wrote: »

The worst thing about being Irish is the constant need for a slap on the back and admiration from others. We aren't great at anything in particular sport wise women's boxing aside. Sure look at rugby ffs. It's a sport played by a handful of nations and have we ever even reached a world cup final?? Okay we have some good musicians but that's about it. Also we aren't a particularly handsome or pretty people are we, good lord it's like a collection of Orks stuck on an island.

I'd say we are as handsome as the next place, unless that area is Lebanon which has stunners. And handsomer than others, like mid America.

We do over-react to this kind of troll, but he isn't of course wrong about the weather. He is wrong about the food. Is he wrong about friendliness? We are less friendly than before I suppose and we are rather cliquish. Offices in Ireland tend to be fairly relaxed. Dublin has busy city syndrome, there's a lot of bad driving etc.

If he had said this about London ( where at least 2 or 3 of the complaints would be valid - unfriendliness and weather) the English would have reacted too.

Anyway I bet he was denied funding or planning permission sometime ago.

Whats also interesting is the self flagellation of a certain group of Irish people.

riclad

In dublin we have the luas and dublin bus. Yes there are country's with lower taxes but would u want to live there. In america taxs are lower but health care is very
expensive you. Ll need to pay for health insurance
Irish weather is similar to most EU country's,
I think Irish people are friendly but honest.
The have a nice day culture is an American thing
Eg service workers want to get a tip.
If u want sunshine everyday move to another country
America relys on air conditioning climate change
is making mega fires and floods more extreme
We have a housing crisis because there have
not been enough houses built to meet demand

KaneToad

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

He's coming from California where the food and weather is really good too

Not sure the droughts (and subsequent wildfires) could be considered really good weather.

GLaDOS

Christ there's some amount of people delighted to shít on their own country at the slightest opportunity.

ohnonotgmail

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

He's coming from California where the food and weather is really good too

yeah the weather there looks perfect, assuming you don't mind your entire life going up in flames.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/california-fire-map/

Thelonious Monk

Well at least they have trees to go on fire, unlike here!

Geuze

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Very good points, he didn't mention taxation but housing prices and taxation are out of this world when you think about it. Public transport is crap and you're forced to use a car if you work anywhere outside the main commerce centres which means you're paying thousands for rip off insurance companies.

House prices in cities are too high, yes.

Taxes in Ireland, overall, are not high. That is a settled issue, it is not open to debate.

The top income tax rate kicks in very early, at approx 35k, which is brutal.

Humberto Salazar

Disagree re food. I've been to America and cannot believe how bad the food is there even in so called good restaurants. It's better here, better quality ingredients. A generalization of course. Weather, well, we're on an island at 53 degrees latitude with a vast ocean to the west and that isn't going to be palm trees and Hawaiian music all year round. He obviously got spurned by a lovely colleen years ago, dancing at the crossroads, musha, hence his bitterness.

MisterSpaccato

Foreigner living in Ireland for 3 years. For what it's worth, i'll share my experience. Food is good, meats and milk are amazing and among the best i've ever tried, and even the big chain super markets have good stuff; fruit and vegetables are a little disappointing and expensive, but still ok. There's a few fish markets in Howth that deliver fresh catch, so i'm happy with seafood quality too.
That said, restaurants are a huge rip off, quality is average at best and prices are honestly ludicrous. Never again, except the occasional burger at Bunsen, or pizza at Sano's.

Weather is not good, but not terrible either. I miss the hot mediterranean summer and having a dark tan in late May, but when i was a student everything was easier, now i have to work and wouldn't have much time to enjoy the sea anyway. Winters here are bearable, frost and snow are uncommon. I couldn't imagine living in a place where temps drop way below zero!

As for the "not welcoming", i wouldn't agree with that either. Never in my time here I felt i was being discriminated. In Switzerland i had a harder time in this regard.

Regarding the “No one wants to live in Ireland unless they’re Irish”, not sure about it either, there's plenty of foreigners that have purchased a house and settled here. That being said, I do think, and i apologize in advance if this is going to offend someone, a lot of this has to do with the abundance of job opportunities and the higher than average salaries, for individuals, and the unfairly advantageous regulations that make the Ireland a de facto tax haven for companies.

lawred2

Geuze wrote: »

House prices in cities are too high, yes.

Taxes in Ireland, overall, are not high. That is a settled issue, it is not open to debate.

The top income tax rate kicks in very early, at approx 35k, which is brutal.

personal taxes are punitive here in Ireland once anyone steps outside being a lower achiever...

The weather this week has me in despair, I may be in some agreement with the tech bro.

AutoTuning

The only thing that annoys me about Ireland is that we care what some tech bro says about us. It’s a sign of a serious lack of self confidence.

What he’s said contradicts what most people say about Ireland. I would tend to go with what the majority, not some guy who jumps on “Ireland, they eat corned beef and cabbage, right?!” stereotypes.

We’ve huge numbers of people who make a decent life here and just speaking personally in my own circle and family: the U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, China, Australia, NZ.

I know several French, English, Germans, Americans and a couple of Aussies who’ve moved here, setup businesses, are extremely integrated into the community in every way.

Maybe he had one bad experience or something, but I wouldn’t really pay much attention to him.

Everywhere is cliquey in Europe in my experience, with a few exceptions like Brussels and London and then only if you move in expat circles or certain industries. Irish cities are pretty bubbly places and easy enough to get to know people in. A lot of rural areas are ok too. Some places are a bit tough to break into, but that’s the same anywhere I’ve ever been, especially small places where everyone knows everyone.

We don’t have Californian weather, but then we don’t have burning forests or earthquakes to contend with either. We do have weather quite like Seattle and the Pacific Northwest, and that’s regarded as a very attractive place to live.

Dublin and several other cities are currently over priced, that’s because a lot of people are opting to live there. It’s a market : demand goes up, prices go up. Places people want to live are rarely cheap.

The absolutely traditional food here is hearty at best, but like the U.K. or Australia and NZ, we aren’t very locked into any particular cuisine. So unlike a lot of Europe’s classically foodie places, things here tend to evolve, fuse, adapt very rapidly. There’s a really good range of excellent food available in all of the cities and most of the towns and villages in Ireland. I get a bit fed up with people writing off irish and also British food as awful, without any experience of it other than some stupid stereotypes.

As for the direct vs indirect culture, I think we are somewhere in the middle. It’s also not north / south in Europe. Spain for example, especially in business, can be direct to the point of nearly painful and France can be so indirect that it would compete with the most indirect part of Kerry for roundabout ways of phrasing things - everything is buried in politeness and subtly.

English business culture is also quite indirect and to many Americans can seem over polite.

In general in business I find Irish people are fairly direct but not rude. In personal life you can have more hint dripping stuff but, again I think that’s possibly down to small circles and you can’t really afford to make enemies as you’ll inevitably run into them again.

Also our political system is remarkably stable and consensus forming due to the structure and unusual voting system. We tend to be able to have quite nuanced and grown up debates. If you’d had the marriage equality or abortion referenda in the USA they’d probably have had a civil war. I won’t take many lecturers from anyone in the USA on topics like that.

I also find Americans incapable of discussing hard topics, which is how they ended up with Trump - a knee jerk reaction to “tell it like it is” after years and years of politicians on both sides who are so puritanical they’d have been flayed alive for using the word toilet instead of restroom and god help you if you’re not overtly religious, be divorced, gay, have an affair etc. They wanted plastic conservative politicians who were often corrupt as hell but as long as they didn’t have “pottymouths”, smoke and said praise Jesus often enough it was fine. They can’t even seem to see what’s wrong with Trump, as long as he waves a bible and says he loves flags often enough - any amount of insane, scandalous stuff can just be overlooked because he’s rich and says a few important conservative keywords over and over.

Yet, they’ll accuse us of being indirect. Just say “where’s the toilet?” or use the F word or say you’re an atheist in some more buttoned up parts of the US and you’ll discover what it means to be indirect. NY, Boston etc are totally different, but there are places I’ve been where you felt you were constantly self censoring and avoiding saying anything controversial or critical.

If you want to take your selfworth from what some tech bro say about you though, you’re on a road to misery.

He’s also moaning about Portugal on Twitter btw.

Shrug off & move on.

illdoit2morrow

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’ve been accused of being a harsh critic on the land of my birth, but the quality of food in Ireland is quite high. Lots of gross breakfast rolls, chicken fillet rolls, and carveries of course, but there’s some fine restaurants, a new food culture, and a high standard of reasonably priced produce in supermarkets.

Welcome back AVB, I've missed your stories!

Aongus Von Bismarck

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I’ve been accused of being a harsh critic on the land of my birth, but the quality of food in Ireland is quite high. Lots of gross breakfast rolls, chicken fillet rolls, and carveries of course, but there’s some fine restaurants, a new food culture, and a high standard of reasonably priced produce in supermarkets.

Food in restaurants here is up to Californian standards nearly, meat in butchers and supermarkets is better. They have a lot of fresh "produce" though that we cant replicate.

Its about a draw.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well at least they have trees to go on fire, unlike here!

Pretty sure there are trees out my windows.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The weather is crap and I've heard from non Irish people that it's almost impossible to make Irish friends. Neither myself nor anyone I know have any non Irish friends that live here that I can think of.

I went to Silicon Valley and it was easy to mget into groups of friends, mostly at work. But we would then meet at weekends and that is the difference with here. Offices are weekday friendly here. But of course people meet their longterm friends at weekends.

The reason that was easy over there though is that the entire tech industry is transient. 80% not from the area.

It would be the same anywhere in Europe. Germans are worse.

DeanAustin

Man expresses opinion. Big swinging mickey. Don’t agree with him but he’s entitled to it.

The quality of our meat is vastly superior to their drug addled offerings.

On the Beach

He's clearly an arrogant, ignorant gobsh!te.

On the Beach

Yeah, the food sucks comment was hilarious considering US food standards.

AutoTuning

The one big difference is if you’re from a country with an at home dining tradition like France or Italy, for example, socialising takes place over the dinner table by inviting people home. The USA has elements of that, more so outside the big cities and in the suburbs.

Ireland, Britain, Belgium and also big, east coast US cities and to a degree (more than france) Spain are far more likely to do their socialising in a bar or a restaurant.

We call them “public houses” because they were where you socialised and met people. We tend to see our homes as a more personal space than some cultures do and that is a cultural difference and there are all sorts of reasons for that.

There isn’t the same tradition of dinner party circuits and all of that that you get in the US, but then there isn’t a range of excellent places to meet outside the home in some ways either.

It’s a different culture and you’re not going to turn Ireland into Minnesota or rural France either, nor would that necessarily be a good thing to attempt to do either.

It doesn’t mean people are less friendly, it just means we tend to do our socialising in shared spaces, more than at home.

We also do have a completely different attitude to alcohol to the USA, if you ignore the big especially eastern cities anyway. Ireland is far, far more comparable to the U.K. on this or Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, etc etc too.

A lot of Europe is also very wine focused. The French for example consume huge amounts of alcohol, just it’s mostly wine and spirits and there are endless excuses for drinking. I mean they only banned alcohol in primary school in France in the 1950s and it was still served in secondary school until the early 80s. That would be shocking and unthinkable even here. Before the 1950s it was normal enough to put a small bottle of wine in your kids’ lunchbox!

1956 France bans alcohol for under 14s at a school:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Ez2RMjwuA

America has a history of extremely puritanical attitudes to alcohol, even going as far as full prohibition and I think that tends to feed into a notion that bars are exclusively about drinking. You can go to an Irish bar and have a meal, teas, coffees etc. I often have nights out where you’d have a table with some people having a beer and others having a pot of tea or flat white. It’s hardly unusual, but you get the impression from some colleagues of mine that pub = den of iniquity

We share a common language, but in many ways we are a lot more like European neighbours than we are like the USA across a whole load of topics like this.

bikerjohn

Placebo Effect wrote: »

Not sure how relevant that is to the point he’s making.

I’d tend to agree with him.food is ****e, people are nosey, not friendly and the weather speaks for itself. It’s an expensive place to live with high taxation on the worker.


Sure we’re great craic...

take the boat then ?

Spore

The quality of our food is actually excellent. It's our cuisine that's lacking. Our milk, beef, butter, eggs, spuds etc. (the food staples) are of the highest quality IN THE WORLD. We have some of the strictest import controls with regards to food imports. Some states in the US are in fact barred from importing their 'food stuff' because the quality is so poor. The intensive farming methods in the American Mid West has degraded the soil so much that corn and the likes only grows via factory loads of chemicals. And the end product is soylent-like shiiite that we prohibit them importing.

Likewise our sea fisheries and marine harvesting is near the top end in the world and is heavily monitored by the DAFM to ensure its quality and the fact that our fish and fish products are free from heavy metal contamination. Some parts of Norway in comparison are prohibited from importing their fish stocks into the EU due to contamination.

Our food is top quality. It's our women that's lacking :pac:

Spore

DeanAustin wrote: »

Man expresses opinion. Big swinging mickey. Don’t agree with him but he’s entitled to it.

And we're also entitled to ours. This is a public forum dedicated to discourse. What's your point exactly?

corner of hells

Spore wrote: »

The quality of our food is actually excellent. It's our cuisine that's lacking. Our milk, beef, butter, eggs, spuds etc. (the food staples) are of the highest quality IN THE WORLD. We have some of the strictest import controls with regards to food imports. Some states in the US are in fact barred from importing their 'food stuff' because the quality is so poor. The intensive farming methods in the American Mid West has degraded the soil so much that corn and the likes only grows via factory loads of chemicals. And the end product is soylent-like shiiite that we prohibit them importing.

Likewise our sea fisheries and marine harvesting is near the top end in the world and is heavily monitored by the DAFM to ensure its quality and the fact that our fish and fish products are free from heavy metal contamination. Some parts of Norway in comparison are prohibited from importing their fish stocks into the EU due to contamination.

Our food is top quality. It's our women that's lacking :pac:

Shots fired !!!! With last comment.

Thelonious Monk

AutoTuning wrote: »

America has a history of extremely puritanical attitudes to alcohol, even going as far as full prohibition and I think that tends to feed into a notion that bars are exclusively about drinking.

I've never been to a state in the US where closing ours were as early as ours, I think there are parts even stricter than Ireland though.
We just put doors on our alcohol sections in supermarkets and every single TD voted in favour of minimum unit pricing. I don't think Ireland can talk when it comes to puritanical alcohol ideas. Even in the UK you can buy beer 24/7.

3d4life

On the Beach wrote: »

He's clearly a salad dodger n arrogant, ignorant gobsh!te.

FYP

AutoTuning

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've never been to a state in the US where closing ours were as early as ours, I think there are parts even stricter than Ireland though.
We just put doors on our alcohol sections in supermarkets and every single TD voted in favour of minimum unit pricing. I don't think Ireland can talk when it comes to puritanical alcohol ideas. Even in the UK you can buy beer 24/7.

I think it can when it comes to social attitudes to it.

The policy attitudes are more of a reaction to the easy going social attitudes towards alcohol and an attempt to curb them, albeit a wrong footed and totally ineffective one in my view, as we’ve developed a patronising kind of approach to alcohol regulation, instead of a culture of responsibility and a more grown up attitude.

Maybe the one good thing that might come of the pandemic could be a bistro/cafe bar culture growing much stronger in 2021. I would let the “non wet” bars open 24/7 and keep the licensing regime for the “wet bars”. I think you just get a more chilled out vibe generally when that stuff is a bit mixed into a night out rather than a drink-to-closing time-deadline approach that we encourage with the current regime.

The USA has some parts that are fully dry.

Also if you go north of the border, several Canadian Provences have have state owned alcohol retail, which makes it about as good as having to buy your wine from CIE or An Post.

RobertKK

bubblypop wrote: »

The Finns are fabulously direct. Love it. No interrogations, No bull****, take it or leave it, they don't mean any offence and if you do take offence, then that's your own problem!

Once you're friends with them you see the friendly funny side.

I have friends from Finland, Romania and Bulgaria.
I agree with you and they make great friends.

L1011

AutoTuning wrote: »

The USA has some parts that are fully dry.

Also if you go north of the border, several Canadian Provences have have state owned alcohol retail, which makes it about as good as having to buy your wine from CIE or An Post.

As do plenty of US states, either direct state owned or franchised (Oregon does this).

Generally beer is available in shops, maybe wine in those states; but you need to buy spirits from the State.

AutoTuning

L1011 wrote: »

As do plenty of US states, either direct state owned or franchised (Oregon does this).

Generally beer is available in shops, maybe wine in those states; but you need to buy spirits from the State.

In British Columbia, wine was available only through BC Wines / BC Liquor and they seem to push in a lot of Canadian wines (they exist!) and now “BC Cannabis Stores”.

And if you look under 85 (too young to be a president) you’re aggressively “carded” at all times.

saabsaab

I guess that he was in Dublin and Cork and big cities can be a bit cold for a stranger but the West Coast is generally friendlier. Anyway if that's how he sees us then that's how he sees us.

Touchee

I’m from Eastern Europe, living in Ireland for 10 years now and I find that the quality of beef, lamb, butter, milk is very difficult to find in other European countries. I think the food served in restaurants and available to purchase in supermarkets is not very exotic, but as far as quality is concerned, it’s top notch.

It’s a beautiful country, with funny and witty people for the most part, I like the way everyone smiles and says “hello, how are you?”.

If I had the money, I would retire to a sunnier country, but Ireland is a great place to live (except for cost of housing and cost of childcare, relative to taxation)

Sardonicat

COVID wrote: »

I'm guessing, by your name, that you prefer to eat the Chinese way.