The housing "crisis" is over

fergus1001

Spanish Eyes wrote:

For the record, I am happy that people who need it will be housed, but not in 500k homes. Nope. There are alternatives.

the reason people are being housed in expensive homes is because the regulations on house building minimum size ect is gone bananas

the problem I have is that if you are on a social housing list then you should not have the right to be placed only in their own community, plenty of houses in leitrim that are equally as good but dont cost as much

Kivaro

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A roof over your head and an education are the basics of a civilised society

This is not a hypothetical question, but what if you are a Turkish Kurd arriving from Canada after working in an airport in Calgary for a number of years, and then, comparatively quickly, getting a €3/4 million social housing apartment in a ritzy part of Dublin. Does that sound fair to your friends and family who are breaking their backs working trying to eke out an existence in this country? Is that being civilised to them?

Now multiply that by many tens of thousands who receive free housing and who are not deserving of it. Free = paid for by the people who work every day.

Coybig_

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A roof over your head and an education are the basics of a civilised society

Why should those who rely on the taxes of others to pay for their lifestyle, housing, income, healthcare and everything else - receive houses in more convenient and attractive areas than those who pay the tax in this country? Why should they have access to a better standard of housing than many others who are working regularly?

It's flat out wrong and an absolute disgrace that this carry on is allowed in this country. Priority should be given to those who contribute.

You see this nonsense right across the board. The "Christmas bonus" for example. What a crock of ****e that is. If it absolutely must be handed out, it should only be given to people who have been on welfare for less than 12 months. No lifetime scroungers should be getting a bloody bonus for bleeding the states finances dry.

Childrens allowance, should be a tax credit after child number 2. No more Jacinta having 5 children that she can't afford while on the dole. No. You don't get to pop out sprogs at will if you can't pay for them.

We need to move a lot of payments into the tax credit system to start encouraging work and stop encouraging lifetime wasters.

Wanderer78

GazzaL wrote:

Great to see huge numbers of new-build council houses being handed out. Top quality, A-rated homes worth anything up to €500k that look fantastic with all the nearly new BMWs and Mercs parked outside.

Bmers and mercs are so last century now, we get free top of the range teslas now, and free power of course!

GazzaL

Coybig_ wrote: »

Why should those who rely on the taxes of others to pay for their lifestyle, housing, income, healthcare and everything else - receive houses in more convenient and attractive areas than those who pay the tax in this country? Why should they have access to a better standard of housing than many others who are working regularly?

It's flat out wrong and an absolute disgrace that this carry on is allowed in this country. Priority should be given to those who contribute.

You see this nonsense right across the board. The "Christmas bonus" for example. What a crock of ****e that is. If it absolutely must be handed out, it should only be given to people who have been on welfare for less than 12 months. No lifetime scroungers should be getting a bloody bonus for bleeding the states finances dry.

Childrens allowance, should be a tax credit after child number 2. No more Jacinta having 5 children that she can't afford while on the dole. No. You don't get to pop out sprogs at will if you can't pay for them.

We need to move a lot of payments into the tax credit system to start encouraging work and stop encouraging lifetime wasters.

The Christmas bonus is a complete joke. There's a colossal amount of people who've worked all their lives and never received a Christmas bonus, the only bonus they get is that they have a job to go back to in January, yet the bleeding heart brigade would cry blue murder about how unfair life is if they don't get extra free cash at Christmas. It's daylight robbery.

As a country, we often benchmark against our nearest neighbour, in everything but social welfare. In the UK, unemployed under 25s get £58.90 per week and over 25s get £74.35. In Ireland, everyone apart from under 25s living with mammy and daddy get €203 per week, plus a Christmas bonus.

Wanderer78

GazzaL wrote: »

The Christmas bonus is a complete joke. There's a colossal amount of people who've worked all their lives and never received a Christmas bonus, the only bonus they get is that they have a job to go back to in January, yet the bleeding heart brigade would cry blue murder about how unfair life is if they don't get extra free cash at Christmas. It's daylight robbery.

As a country, we often benchmark against our nearest neighbour, in everything but social welfare. In the UK, unemployed under 25s get £58.90 per week and over 25s get £74.35. In Ireland, everyone apart from under 25s living with mammy and daddy get €203 per week, plus a Christmas bonus.

has hardly lead to their current situation, has it???

lalababa

Have a look at the architect on irishvernacular.com who worked out, designed and built a very simple 3bed house for c.25k. An A/B rated BER mind! We are being sold a pup re the cost of materials and construction. A one size fits all ****show.
But sure till be grand.
Did ye see the talking heads on primetime amazed and confounded at the tenants living six to a small room in Dublin and paying 300/month! "how can people live like this??" "How's this happening??" "how can they not afford something better??" "why aren't they earning 50k "etc.....

Idbatterim

No doubt the morons in rte were championing the abolishment of bedsits too! Like you you say, if they only want to provide rip off housing, please provide several hundred thousand extra high paying jobs to go with it...

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

has hardly lead to their current situation, has it???

Im sure it has, way better infrastructure. Not a pisstake marginal rate of tax, better health service etc ... assuming relative lower national debt too! They also have a larger percentage of elderly and a large military and defence spend. What can we brag about here? World class welfare to keep margaret cash and co from emigrating? While doctors, nurses, trades people etc leave due to rip off housing and a scandalous marginal tax rate to fund the legions of waste and wasters in this country!

Listen at least we are wealthy enough to siphon off billions into the bookies, pubs, fast food, online shopping etc!

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im sute it has, way better infrastructure. Not a pisstake marginal rate of tax, better health service etc ... assuming relative lower national debt too!

Listen at least we are wealthy enough to siphon off billions into the bookies, pubs, fast food, online shopping etc!

once again, public debt has caused far less serious and far less frequent economic crashes, as 08 showed us yet again, private debt is the far more dangerous of the two

Eric Cartman

Idbatterim wrote: »

No doubt the morons in rte were championing the abolishment of bedsits too! Like you you say, if they only want to provide rip off housing, please provide several hundred thousand extra high paying jobs to go with it...

Abolish bedsits, landlords cant decline hap, developments have to give over 10% to the social , cluid buys up houses and forces taxpayers to live next to those who in general contribute nothing

The media : “but why are they building so many hotels and co-living spaces”
Maybe because those are the only things exempt from the above madness..

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Abolish bedsits, landlords cant decline hap, developments have to give over 10% to the social , cluid buys up houses and forces taxpayers to live next to those who in general contribute nothing

The media : “but why are they building so many hotels and co-living spaces”
Maybe because those are the only things exempt from the above madness..

As housing becomes more and kore expemsibe, more people will question the insanity of tge situation here, a minoroty of us have for years!

One documentary on the scandalous welfare state, free housing, medical cards and its abuse, you would have people singing a different tune here. But you wont get it from amy spineless irish outlet...

Ive an idea, stop sorcha from ucd getting a deposit bailout from parents, she and her liberal " arent the poor great aul fellas" would change then! Go live with the consequences of rip off property like many of us have too.

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

As housing becomes more and kore expemsibe, more people will question the insanity of tge situation here, a minoroty of us have for years!

One documentary on the scandalous welfare state, free housing, medical cards and its abuse, you would have people singing a different tune here. But you wont get it from amy spineless irish outlet...

once again, you ll find one of the main reasons for the rapid rise in the price of housing has in fact been the rapid increase in the availability of credit towards developers and buyers

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, you ll find one of the main reasons for the rapid rise in the price of housing has in fact been the rapid increase in the availability of credit towards developers and buyers

No credit increase towards buyers as far as i am aware ... and i agree with this stance. Prices will simy rise if you offer more money to peoole, looking for a most basic human need and particularly in this banana republic housing market and the psychology of ownership here...

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

No credit increase towards buyers as far as i am aware ... and i agree with this stance. Proces will simy rise if you odfer more mo ey to peoole, looking for a most basic human need and particularly in this banana republic housing market and the psychology of ownership here...

central bank rules havent actually done anything in relation to demand for housing, demand has in fact increased, there is effectively infinite amounts of credit available, but only to those that can afford it, central bank rules have only locked a whole cohort of people out of property markets, our housing issues have little or nothing to do with welfare classes. the psychology of home ownership is understandable, its called security, its a critical human need, and security of accommodation is by far the most critical of human needs

creeper1

If you successfully find a job when on the dole you stand to lose - the dole itself (something like 800 euros a month I believe), help with rent ( though I suppose low paying jobs allow you to keep this) and the medical card.

Has anyone done a calculation on what the minimum salary is before it’s worth your while working?

Government buildings

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There never was a housing crisis, there was an entitlement crisis pushed to death by the Lefties in the meedja.

And all the political parties in Ireland follow this.

Ardillaun

Coybig_ wrote: »

The answer is absolutely not to build more social housing. We don't need any more scroungers than there already are, or to be encouraging that sort of behaviour. We should be building nice affordable housing as a priority for the people on the border between lower and middle class.

What about the Viennese model with more renters and affordable housing?

The exhibition shows how Vienna – often ranked first in international quality of living scales – has developed a cost-rental housing model [the price tenants pay is based on construction and maintenance costs, not market rent] in well designed, adaptable and inclusive neighbourhoods.
It also explains the historic context of how the City of Vienna owns over 220,000 homes with another 200,000 provided by limited-profit housing associations. And, how three quarters of the city’s 1.9 million inhabitants rent apartments, many of which have terraced balconies, rooftop gardens and communal courtyards. About half of the population in Vienna were born outside of Austria.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/dublin-turns-to-vienna-for-affordable-housing-solution-1.3852436

One big advantage would be a more stable property market.

Wanderer78

creeper1 wrote:

If you successfully find a job when on the dole you stand to lose - the dole itself (something like 800 euros a month I believe), help with rent ( though I suppose low paying jobs allow you to keep this) and the medical card.

If you ve been long term unemployed, the chances of gaining employment are seriously stacked against you, and if you manage to over come this obstacle, which some do, you re very likely to remain in low waged work indefinitely, so meeting your accommodation needs will always be a serious problem

Ardillaun

For too long, we’ve gone down the Anglo-American route on property, viewing ever higher prices as a good thing rather than a cost to the real economy. As a result, productive young workers are pushed ever farther out of Dublin. It’s not a wise way to organize things.

James Brown

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There never was a housing crisis, there was an entitlement crisis pushed to death by the Lefties in the meedja.

What about the working tax payers? Just giving out and moving back in with their Ma for the craic? Moving miles away from work for the country air?

If a person or couple are working and paying tax they are entitled to be able to rent or even buy IMO. The idea that it's a luxury for the wealthy is accepting a wrong committed against the tax payer.
Anyone investing or speculating in housing should be taxed to the hilt.

Idbatterim

Ardillaun wrote: »

For too long, we’ve gone down the Anglo-American route on property, viewing ever higher prices as a good thing rather than a cost to the real economy. As a result, productive young workers are pushed ever farther out of Dublin. It’s not a wise way to organize things.

Pushed out of Dublin? Many leave the country , skilled workers badly needed here...

I wonder what the rents charged in Vienna etc are as a percentage of income... its despicable giving away free housing, or massively constrained supply due partially to finance, due to free rent on assets worth billions of euro...

Ardillaun

Idbatterim wrote: »

Pushed out of Dublin? Many leave the country , skilled workers badly needed here...
.

That’s what I did, although property prices were the least of my concerns at the time.

ChikiChiki

Serious question. How do I get my hands on one of these? Do I need to get sacked and dumb down for a few years or what?

What's the minimum criteria to get one. Because paying full whack for a house when you can get one for little or nothing would be idiotic.

These people have frustrated me for years but I'm now beginning to see the merits. If you can't beat them, join them.

Idbatterim

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Serious question. How do I get my hands on one of these? Do I need to get sacked and dumb down for a few years or what?

What's the minimum criteria to get one. Because paying full whack for a house when you can get one for little or nothing would be idiotic.

These people have frustrated me for years but I'm now beginning to see the merits. If you can't beat them, join them.

Literally have a kid, show up at garda station etc for a night.... rte will get one sorted for you pronto... no chance of not waiting over a decade plus ...

Ardillaun

Resentment of various types of affordable/social housing would be less if Dublin property prices weren't so mad. To the west of a modestly sized city on a thinly populated island are veritable prairies of undeveloped land, to say nothing of sites in the city itself. There's a solution in there somewhere.

ILoveYourVibes

Ardillaun wrote: »

Resentment of various types of affordable/social housing would be less if Dublin property prices weren't so mad. To the west of a modestly sized city on a thinly populated island are veritable prairies of undeveloped land, to say nothing of sites in the city itself. There's a solution in there somewhere.

You said it.

I agree.

Also ..we all know these houses or apartments should NOT be costing 500k ...they are not worth it. They need to cap house prices.

Wanderer78

Ardillaun wrote:

Resentment of various types of affordable/social housing would be less if Dublin property prices weren't so mad. To the west of a modestly sized city on a thinly populated island are veritable prairies of undeveloped land, to say nothing of sites in the city itself. There's a solution in there somewhere.

Credit, credit, credit, is the main reason for ridiculous property and land prices across the globe, but somehow it's the fault of the scary foreigners and the welfare classes!

Timing belt

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Credit, credit, credit, is the main reason for ridiculous property and land prices across the globe, but somehow it's the fault of the scary foreigners and the welfare classes!

It’s down to fact that housing is deliberately in short supply because not enough housing is being built along with government policies that have kept most economic output in one region rather than credit that have caused the housing issue. There is no shortage of land in Ireland and the only reason for a shortage of housing stock is because the government refuse to take action and thereby make it a limited commodity.

Effects

lalababa wrote: »

Have a look at the architect on irishvernacular.com who worked out, designed and built a very simple 3bed house for c.25k.

He's a highly skilled architect, with access to mates to help him.
That doesn't really happen too much in Ireland to be honest.
And building regulations make that very difficult and expensive, especially in the larger cities. He built in Leitrum, didn't he? Where planning is really easy to achieve.

Here's another interesting guy who builds traditionally and also with found materials. https://www.harrisongardner.net